Episode 22: Four P's of a Pitch for Marketing Your Book with Guest Dr. Christiane Schroeter

We welcome our guest, Dr. Christiane Schroeter, to the show to talk about the four key elements of a pitch for marketing your book to agents and readers.

Dr. Christiane Schroeter is a Business & Wellness Coach known for her European flair. She helps women improve their health and confidence so they can show up for their life & business differently. Christiane has a Ph.D. in Health Economics and teaches Marketing, Innovation & Entrepreneurship. She earned multiple national and international teaching and publication awards. Most of her clients find Christiane through her Happy Healthy Hustle Podcast, ranked among the TOP 1.5% globally. Christiane creates a community on Instagram and YouTube, sharing how to nurture your health without the overwhelm.

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Transcript

0:01

Welcome fellow writers to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast, your go to hub for all things writing. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie. Whether you're a seasoned wordsmith or just dipping your quill into the ink well of creativity, we're absolutely thrilled to have you with us. Drawing from our experience in publishing diverse writing genres and the daily grind of showing up for yourself, we're here to be your writing companions. Expect insightful discussions, expert tips, and a dash of inspiration as we navigate the twists and turns of the writing journey together. So whether you're listening on your commute, during your writing session, or just relaxing at home, get ready for an immersive experience that celebrates the art and joy of writing. Hi,

Elizabeth: 0:49

Thank you for being here today with us. And we're so excited to hear what guidance you have for us as writers in pitching our books. Find Christiane through her happy, healthy hustle podcast, which is ranked among the top 1. 5 percent globally. Christiane creates a community on Instagram and YouTube sharing how to nurture your health without the overwhelm. And you'll find links to all of her, her website, as well as all of her social media within the description for this podcast episode. And we're so excited to have her here with us today because she's going to be talking about the art of crafting a compelling pitch, regardless of how you, a writer ends up publishing their book, whether you go the traditional route, whether you go self publishing route or something in between, you're going to have to market your book, whether that's pitching to an agent or whether that's simply pitching to a potential reader. So this is going to be an important Discussion that we have today and so we'll just go ahead and kick it off to christianne Who's going to tell us what we need to know about? Pitching a great message and crafting that so that we can sell our books

Christiane: 2:07

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. So what you can maybe hear from my accent is I am from Europe. And what I always embrace is that we kind of Really think a little bit about how can we use our backgrounds to our best, right? And best me, not necessarily as like the best as like becoming these stars or celebrities, but more letting our own superpowers shine and share with others, because it also makes you more confident. So I really think I embrace my European background. I am from Germany, which many people associate with efficiency, right? So I'm a very numbers and efficient driven person, but at the same time, I also like the little fun things in life. And if you think about Europe, you might think, oh yeah, there's Paris and those little macaroon cookies or like the little joy and the flair and we call it, you know, the voila or soiree vivre. And so all of a sudden you're like, Oh my gosh, yeah, this is actually really fun. And so that's how I really think you need to embrace an elevator pitch. Just having fun with it. Don't think of it as being something serious that you are recording it. You're putting it out there and it's going to be perfect. Think of it as something that every time when you hit record, It might just be like maybe 1 percent better than the previous one. And that's maybe what we should be aiming for the 1 percent improvement instead of immediately recording it and thinking, Oh my gosh, it's going to be perfect. Because you know what, there are always little things that you can do better. It's just like writing a draft for your book. And I always tell my students in my classes. Please don't use the word draft because I always think when we think of a draft, we actually don't try very hard. I always think of the word draft as something to where you're just like throwing things out there and then you are sharing it with the world. I always tell my students, put your best out there and then close it down and maybe look at it on the next day and then say, all right, I'm happy with where this is right now and I'm going to share it. And sharing means that maybe in your pitch, you're highlighting some of the things that you really felt special about your book or your chapter or whatever you are going for. So that's really, really important that you essentially you're moving on. So let's maybe we coin this practice makes perfect to practice makes progress. Basically, you have to move on, you have to close it and you have to say, all right, I'm going to pitch this right now because I'm feeling pretty confident about this and I'm going to move on to the next project because practice makes also projects, right? So practice, progress, projects, and let's talk about this P of a pitch to kind of add in another one right there. So when I think of a pitch, I think of, like, when you go to the movie theater and maybe you bought a ticket to let's say a new action movie and you're sitting down and they got all your attention because you're already sitting down. You already got your popcorn, your friends next to you. Speaking of the partners, your popcorn, you're in a place, right? And so then. You can't really help it, but you're going to look up front to the screen. And so then they start those little promotional videos. We call them teaser videos for something else. And sometimes because I teach marketing. I have to be honest with you, sometimes I wonder, it's like, why are they showing me this particular preview right now? Because I don't think I'm the ideal client for what they're showing there, which is like a horror movie? I mean, action, horror, I get it. Or sometimes they show me like a very children's oriented thing, and I'm like, well, I would probably never spend money to go to the movie theater because I could just watch this at home with my children on the couch. Which Right. I mean, we don't need to necessarily go to the movie theater for that, even though it's a great experience. So sometimes what I'm wondering is when I watch these teasers, is that even actually targeted at the right place? So that's your very first thing. Don't just pitch to everybody. Do some research when you do your pitch and really figure out is there what we call a product market fit. You can't just like send a generic pitch because I tell you what, The person that's getting that email, that pitch is going to be able to see that, and they're going to understand that. So you have to, what I call, personalize your pitch. The more time you craft your pitch, the more time you personalize it, the more there's actually going to be a success rate. Because sure, you could send out a hundred pitches, and then just kind of like, feel like you're throwing spaghetti on the wall and see what lands. Or you spend a little bit of time and actually crafting your pitch and personalizing it and figuring out, is that a good spot for my book or my article? Because I'm actually feeling that when it would land there, that's a very good home, my book. I'm feeling my baby found a good home right there. And it's just like, you know, when I signed up my children for child care, huh? I don't want to just get anywhere. It's like, oh, they're gone. Well, actually, hold on. Where are they? Right. So you want to sign them up somewhere where like, I feel they're in good hands. Right. And your book is kind of like that. You're like, I'm, you're dropping it off and you're like feeling good about this and then you're leaving. Okay. Exactly like that. So think movie theater, all of those little pitches or promotional reels that are coming in, are like, I want to watch that. And like some of them, you even like elbowing your partner. You're like, Oh my gosh, totally. Like, did you see the date? I'm going to put that in my calendar. That's a good one. So that's what you need to think about a pitch. It's all very, very personalized, very focused, very much along the lines of maybe other books that are already out there. Yeah. And you're basically just maybe picking up some elements and you could even add that into your pitch right there. So maybe that's a good time to see. Do you have any add ons or questions about this Stephanie or Liz, before we go into the exact steps of what the pitch could contain.

Elizabeth: 8:31

I think it's such a good point that you bring up about the personalizing and being intentional about where you pitch. And if you're pitching specifically to an agent, you can go on, you know, the literary website. They have websites that show exactly what they're looking for, like what genres they're looking for, what kind of content they want in the storylines. That's how I chose which agent I was going to pitch to at a recent online conference that I attended. I read through all the different agents and I looked at what genres they were even accepting, what age groups they were looking for, whether it was adult fiction, whether it was young adult whether it was fantasy or whether they were open to hearing about memoir. And the one I ended up selecting was I chose because she spoke specifically to some of the issues that I address in my memoir as far as I want to hear stories about identity and about power dynamics, and I want to hear stories about change and development and so taking that time to filter through who you're going to pitch to, because it is a still a time intensive process to go and pitch and can be costly. I was paying to have some time with this person. And it's so important to make sure that you. You filter through that and, and aren't just pitching to anyone. Although, like you said, in the beginning, the experience is still valuable regardless of whether it's a good fit, but let's optimize both of those things, like getting a good experience and potentially having a good fit.

Christiane: 10:00

Yeah. And, and exactly it, because think about the agent and looking through their eyes, how many emails they get. And if your email is really personalized. And it shows that you did some research, it's going to land in a completely different spot because all of a sudden you're really feeling, Oh my gosh, that person did the research that somebody I want to work with. That's somebody I'm going to be proud to actually support in this progress. And not just like some random person that sends up a thousand emails with them. Chat GBT email right there. That's absolutely not personalized. So that's brilliant that you actually supporting that and that you are adding your own personal experience with it. So let's maybe talk about the pitch element itself, right? Because there are four important aspects that should definitely be there. So coming back to my movie theater experience. In a good teaser, there's always what we call a hook at the beginning, right? The hook. Like, think you're, you're standing at a lake and you can just, like, throw a bunch of stuff and hope that fish is going to bite. But if you don't have something on your hook, well, it's not going to happen, right? So you need to think a little bit about What is an opening line that will not be, that will not give too much away about what I'm trying to accomplish, but it creates a little curiosity and aspect about suspense. And you don't want to over promise or under promise, but at the same time, you also want to think that these people, again, get a lot of emails. Is there like a very short and succinct, not like a three line book, but is there a very short and succinct thing that I could pull out? Like, it's kind of like the why you did you write the book that you could pull out and put to the beginning. And Idea of the prompt is really that when you write your email, maybe there's a good subject line in many of the email programs, you can even create a little prompt that will go into a preview. So when the email lands in that email box, people will see that. Think about that already being the very first time when somebody puts eyes on you. The pitch lands in the email, I'm seeing the little preview and the subject line. Now I'm opening the email. Oh my gosh, that's good. And now I'm starting to read the first line. And now, if that's a good prompt, and if it's, that's a good hook. I'm going to keep on reading. So don't just think of writing up this long drawn out thing. And by all means, let's not start with, and I get these emails all the time, right? That I kind of like, hello, my name is dah, dah, dah, dah. It's like, well, I got that. I got the emails. I know what your email, what your name is. You don't need to introduce yourself. We are, we're good now, right? It, there is an address. It's, you don't need to say that. And sometimes actually it gets filtered at spam because it could be somebody that's asking you to support their business venture and then you're like, okay, this is just one of those. So think of creating, maybe I like, I like questions a lot in hooks. I like facts a lot. Like, did you know that dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, I like that a lot. There is a lot of different ways how you can create a compelling hook without giving too much away so that people still keep on reading, right? Thanks. That is so important. Liz, you were nodding there. Did you feel that the, the hook is sometimes the most challenging thing to write, isn't it? Right?

Elizabeth: 13:35

It can be challenging, but if you need ideas, where you're going to find the hook, basically, if you look at a book, is on the back. And it's that top line that's, you know, in a different font, maybe a different color, and it's like it's not even sometimes it's not even a full sentence. You know, sometimes it's just a clause of she didn't know that this day was going to change your life or whatever it is, you know, something that's really attention grabbing. Now, I have heard some alternative advice about not using questions, but I think there's a time and a place for both. And just the caution behind it is don't ask a question. That the reader may answer differently and therefore have their own expectations about how you resolve something in the book versus, you know how you choose to. So don't ask the question like, will she leave him? Because they may say yes and you said no. And now you've, you know, you've changed what the, you're not going to meet the reader expectation, but certainly, especially in your, if you're talking about like nonfiction, especially asking a provocative question that gets people thinking, Can be really helpful.

Christiane: 14:42

Yeah, and I like to use a strategy myself a lot to where I write something like this may be controversial, dot, dot, dot. Because it also creates authenticity with you, you immediately, and this is actually the second thing that we're going to talk about. So the first thing, the hook. The second thing is the most important thing. It's positioning. You have to, after the hook, position yourself. Who are you? What's your intent? And how do you fit into the age and this particular publishing house and the genre that they are really going for? So really, really important, very succinct bio, not the one that's like the 1000 word bio, but like very short. And that's maybe where you put previous publishing experiences or any awards, anything you don't have to go overboard. Just a very few words. So, maybe 2, 3 lines, but that positioning is so important because after you hook and you say, this might be controversial or something like that. And then, like, however. In my previous publishing experience of two children's books, da da da da da, I showed that the controversy is actually sparking discussion and it's leading to a more authentic and relevant, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so you're kind of like, oh, okay, now this actually makes sense. She's not just like stirring the pot, but it actually is her genre or something along these lines. And then you can weave that in without being I'm asking a question that you will never answer. So I like the the question part, but at the same time, I completely agree with you. It's not good to have a question that A, you will never answer or B, where people make up their mind and then they continue reading the email and they're like, well, that's not kind of what I was going for. So the, do you know. Answer those facts. And of course those are true facts, or this might be surprising is good or anything like that. It's in general good for your hook to be something that is like a conversation with a friend. The whole pitch should be very conversational, short sentences, very excited and passionate. And you can actually record it on your audio, on your, on your phone while you maybe walk around. So keep moving. Instead of in front of the computer when you might feel like a lot of pressure to perform. It's not really a performance. It's more really just like sharing the spark of passion that you had when you wrote the book. And sometimes when we are sitting in front of a computer. We don't feel that same spark because there's just so much pressure. So what I've always recommend is just record first the audio, and then what you can even go back into is just read the audio in front of the camera, because your audio is excited enough that maybe when you read it, you're getting that excitement back instead of sitting there and feeling, Oh my gosh, what am I going to say now? And I'm not going to have filler words and I don't know where to look and where my hand's going and all that kind of stuff. So that sometimes helps.

Elizabeth: 17:49

I think that's cool advice to almost create a transcript for yourself in a time when you can really dig into the passion behind it and the reason behind why you were excited to write this book in the first place and capturing that through the words and then using those same words to then elicit the passion that you need to have once you actually get in front of the camera. I think that's a nice, nice hack.

Christiane: 18:12

Love it. And, and actually, I always say, If you have a really good hook, I know that eye contact is super, super important. However, in those first 10, 15, 30 seconds, if you do send a video pitch, or maybe you're writing an email pitch. You're going to lose somebody. So if it's really a brilliant hook, but you just cannot memorize it, it's actually more important that you maybe use a teleprompter or that you get that written down than bitching, kind of like ditching it and feeling like, oh gosh, it didn't go so well, whatever. I am very much in favor of saying it didn't go so well, let's move on. But actually the time between clicking start. In 10, 15, 30 seconds is super crucial because you're going to lose somebody. And if you lose somebody, they will not come in or they will not skip to a later part in the video or a later part in your email. So think of that. First element you can totally use a teleprompter. As I say, you can look down, you maybe look up, you can put post its around your screen, play around a little bit. I've actually had my husband hold like a little whiteboard behind a screen and I basically was just looking up and I was waiting. So It's all right, we are all human and sometimes those little hiccups and mistakes just make you more human and more relevant and people will actually connect more with that than having like a super polished video full of stock images, which looks like totally. Fake, right? So that is actually something that I always embrace. If there is an important element, just get it out the way that you want it to get it out. And don't worry about maybe, you know, that it's, it's red or something like this. If you feel like that's the best way of saying it, then just read it. It's all right. You know, and then after that, when you feel more comfortable, let go of that script and start narrating more in your own words.

Elizabeth: 20:10

That's a similar advice to what I heard Shonda Rhimes give in her master class of when she has people come pitch, you know, screenwriting ideas to her. Ultimately, she just, she's looking for the story. She doesn't expect each screenwriter to be this super engaging personality to be, you know, extroverted or outgoing. It's a very nervous process and she understands that you know from going through it herself and she had the same sort of underlying message that you're sharing here of just get the the content out the story out even if that means you're reading straight from a page because what I'm buying is the story and yes there's an element of can you represent yourself well but I mean, we we know that majority or a large significant portion of writers are more introverted, and so that's okay. If you aren't comfortable or super outgoing and being able to memorize something, you're not the actor being hired for the scene. That's okay. If that's not how that looks for you, just make sure you get that beautiful content out so that that is what can be assessed.

Christiane: 21:18

That's really good advice and that will actually lead to the next one. So, yeah, we talked about the pitch, right. In terms of starting with the hook. Then we talked about your personalization being really important. Then we talked about positioning. So now you positioned yourself in terms of you're the expert and your background a little bit. So let's talk a little bit more about another P, which is called the product. Because now, of course, you have to talk about what you're actually pitching, right? Description of the product. Of course, you're so into this that at that point, you're like, I didn't even know how to summarize it. It might be that maybe you look at the backside of the book and that's maybe some of the little best tidbits that are there, but I always say that think a little bit about the very, very best pearls that you're betting, putting out there. It's like you're walking past. A window of a jewelry store, they're not going to put like the cheap necklaces out then the window and you're like, well, I don't know why I would go in there. You have to be something attention grabbing right there. Like the description about your product has to be attention grabbing. And, and I can't emphasize that enough. It has to be differentiated enough to where they feel this adds on to the existing line of products that we already have. So the description of the product is straightforward. And at the same time, I like to use the word unlike, so it could be establishing a comparison between the product that they already have. And then you could say, unlike this book, I am adding the perspective of this detective and how she investigates, or unlike other memoirs, mine is focused on the burnout that experienced when I turned 40. And like, so then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, this is kind of unique. And in marketing, we actually call it the unique selling proposition or USP. The uniqueness has to come through in the product description, because if you just like, okay, so there's a motor detective, okay, there's a memoir. Okay. Burnout. They're like, we already got that. Right. We don't want that. So the uniqueness is not overselling, but it's more, it's more I deliver a unique contribution to blah, blah, blah memoirs by focusing on the that. And that is the ultimate like, you know, bread and butter of a pitch to where you figure out, okay, I don't need to go out of my way to work with this author. It sounds like they're just becoming part of the family. Right. And that's so important,

Elizabeth: 24:04

right? They want to see how it's going to fit in with the rest of their like product line. That was some of the feedback I got when I pitched to this agent. And this was, again, my first pitch. And she said that, well, everyone struggles with this and everyone is blah, blah, blah, which I get. And to me, that was why everyone's going to buy the book because this is something that everyone struggles with. While that may be true at that moment in the pitching, you have to recognize that this agent and the ultimate, you know, traditional publisher are looking at this as a business, right? And they're looking to see what they can market, what they can sell, what they can distinguish in the marketplace. And so ultimately, Her recommendation, after I asked a couple of follow up questions, was to lead more with my queer experience of dealing with these issues, you know, being, going into motherhood, having to use IUI because we were two females, and divorce of a queer couple, and what that looks like in our world where that's still happening. You know, not the norm or not the everyday perspective and highlighting that sort of unique perspective on to it. Instead of playing to the universality, which is what I've been reflecting on in regards to reaching my reader. You know of like have you struggle with this me too when I found a solution, you know and it's it's a little bit of recognizing your audience too while a lot of this conversation today is directed Specifically to like the pitching of the to the agents and the publishers and then to your readers. It'll be a little bit different you have to know your audience, right?

Christiane: 25:47

Completely true. And actually, I love that comparison that you brought up because we sometimes are afraid of creating a little list of this is who it's for. And this is really, really important. This is who it's not for. We are sometimes afraid of creating that second column. This is who it's not for. Because we feel like we don't want to turn anybody away. Right. But at the same time, when you create that table that has two columns, this is for you, if you are da, da, da, da, da, da, da, and that's your ideal client. And then you say. Well, if you're not interested in this and in that and that, and then it's not for you and, and that's actually great because it makes me understand that that person is putting themselves out there authentically and they've only thought about not wasting my time with pitching something that they just want to pitch to everybody, but they rather want to pitch it in a way that it makes them unique and it makes me understand who they Who connects with them, what's the niche, what is really the audience that they are connecting with? Because of course, the audience will look for this and I want to make sure that on one hand, I have the product that's very clearly described, but on the other hand, I also have the market that supports that product right there. So the better you're positioning yourself. The better you describe your product, the more, and now we come to this last element of the pitch, you're actually going to create a response. So the last element of the pitch is the prompt. In the prompt, you have to give somebody the reason to get back to you. If there's no prompt, then I'm like, well, this was just another email, right? So it could be something like. And I look forward in connecting with you and discussing the next steps with regard to my publishing journey or something like that, or it could be even that you're setting in a gentle timeline. I would be happy to send you a sneak preview of my book by the end of the month or something like along these lines, or if you would like further information, I can send you. And my 1 sheet that shows other publications and then, of course, putting it in your calendar that you send the pitch and maybe after 2 weeks. Follow up, right? I do that all the time where I follow up. So it's not just a prompt to the publishing house. It's also a prompt to yourself that you did this because it's not the. Send and done, you need to keep track of what you're doing because otherwise you have all these floating emails out there that totally might end up in cyberspace and never reach the person and that's all right. Or maybe they accidentally click delete or who knows what, but you are the one that has to follow through and it does not end with just pushing submit, you have to create a prompt and you have to follow up on the prompt. And the most important thing here is that you really create a problem that makes it very easy for that person to get back to you. Not something like. Can't wait to sign the contract, you know, that's like a little much, it's like, oh my gosh, we're not quite getting married yet, you know, think about like a first date that you're creating, what's maybe the first step of a first date, can't wait to hop on a 15 minute chat with you and discuss something, or you could even put a calendar link down there, right? Anyway, so make it easy thinking back about why I started this. The petite practices, make it small, make it something that's very much like what I do in my day to day life already. I now do book appointments. I now do grab coffee. I now do chat. So make it very much along the lines of what this publisher already does, so that they basically feel this is going to be just an easy process very streamlined. Very much looking forward to working with this person.

Elizabeth: 29:53

Have you do you have much experience with I forget the names of it. Like, the, like, submittable queries, like, maybe it's query finder or where it's all housed within, like, a website, right where you then screen the agents and then they have, you know, specific things that they're asking for. Are you doing this same template and those spaces? Or is this purely if you, like, reach out through your own means, whether that's email or whatever

Christiane: 30:25

the question. So, I actually use both. I use email a lot. And actually speaking about practice makes progress, my initial emails used to be really long and now I really cut it down because it was like, you know what, this is actually speaking about petite practices. That thing really was not petite at all. It was like big practice. So I really cut it back and I made it much more succinct. And, you know, speaking about chat GVT. If you really struggle cutting things down, you could put a prompt in chat. gbt and say something like, make it to the level of a seventh grader, simple sentences, bulleted lists, and then you can edit it back. And you're like, okay, actually now we cut it back. Or whatever, make it, cut it back from this many words to that many words. And then you edit it again and customize it because sometimes it's hard to cut things back. So I do that. With regard to the forms. I do fill out a lot of forms in those query forms and where I put in information and I created a Trello board. And in my Trello board, I save all my links, I save introduction, bios, images, everything that I need to upload because I fill out so many of these pictures that I realized I was asking for the same stuff, right? And so in my Trello board, everything is there. And then I basically just copy and paste it and put it in the little. Elements in the form it's usually asking, you know, social links social proof, you know, other places where you published headshot, you know maybe a cover art, anything like that. And then you just go through and you're like, instead of like, you know, every time you start this process again what I like a lot is keeping some kind of track that you actually submitted this way. My travel board also sometimes. I have a Google sheet where I actually say where I apply to, and that helps me then to follow up. Because again, you submit something, you're like, what did I submit last week? I don't even remember. Right. I have that all the time. Or what did I promise them? Did I promise them something? Did I say I would send something within a week? I don't even remember. And then you need to find it and it wastes time. So making it efficient means you're, when you send it, you'll make yourself a note. And I like in my. In my calendar, I like to create reminders. So for instance, I might put in send pitch and then I just put it on repeat. And maybe in two weeks that sent pitch will come up as a little reminder, my calendar, and will remind me that I sent the pitch and that I can follow up on it.

Elizabeth: 32:59

Hmm. Nice. Very cool. Do you have any sort of advice, guidance, inspiration for those who are simply hesitant or scared to make that first step? Whether it's because they're fearing rejection or they don't know where to start, or it just feels overwhelming?

Christiane: 33:21

Oh, for sure. So here's my, my best piece of advice and if you ever hear it differently, it's probably not honest. You're going to get so many rejections and so many no's that it's unbelievable. The more you pitch, the more no's you hear. But in a certain way, that's a pretty good, that's pretty good. Right? Because I would say the number 1 failure is really that you're not even putting yourself out there. Right? So not even trying will crush more dreams than failure ever will. That's how you need to think about it. If that was your dream to write the book. Then it's a failure not to pitch it. So now you wrote it. It's kind of like you're at the Olympic games and you ran the marathon, writing the book, and then you slow down before the finish line, it's like, what it's like people on the TV, it's like they start walking, you have to read it. Exactly. Everybody's cheered you on. And if you need that kick in the fanny, just create accountability partner. Say in one week, I'm going to get my pitch together. So you will have to go through the finish line. It doesn't end with just writing it. So my word of advice to you would be that if you already created it, then just see it through because now putting yourself out there is what everybody else has done. All these amazing authors got rejected so many times, and if you ever read from somebody that they immediately got accepted. Absolutely not sure. I think that all famous authors probably have if you were to print it out, like whole binders of rejection letters. And you know what? Just keep going. Because that's the beauty of it. I think that's just something, if you can say you got a thousand rejection letters, that just means you pitched a lot. Yay for you, right? So, think about that every time you keep going, because I think that's really when a lot of the failure happens, that you look at the Noah as being a personal thing, and it's never personal. It adds another P right there. It's not personal. It might just be that they didn't appreciate who you are and what your book is all about. Right. It just, it wasn't the right fit. So be it. Keep moving. You know, yes, keep moving.

Elizabeth: 35:46

Beautiful. I love that. I think that's going to be so helpful for people. We do have an upcoming guest coming up in a couple of weeks that is in the pitching process of talking to agents with these traditional publishers. So she's going to be able to speak to that, like, feet on the ground experience, which will, I think, piggyback really nicely off of this conversation today. Thank you so much for being here with us and for inspiring these writers both here today In this zoom chat, but also those that will get to hear this episode stephanie, do you have anything else that you'd like to add today?

Stephanie: 36:21

The only thing I want to say is thank you so much and I really another p that comes to mind is purposeful you really focus honed in on just how purposeful and focused we are We need to be as writers and, and I love your advice at the end about. Allowing for the rejections. And I know it's definitely a hard part of it, but it's, your advice was spot on.

Elizabeth: 36:49

Thank you listeners for being here today. Again, we will have her links in the show notes. Please follow her. Listen to her podcast. She's got lots of amazing resources available and anything else you'd like to say? Yeah, I love,

Christiane: 37:05

I love what Stephanie just added. And. What I, what I always think too is with regard to purpose, right? So sometimes it helps if you may be like in the moment and it's just a little bit too much to step a little bit away from it and create a little bit of a boundary too, because you might be so in the moment where you're feeling, oh my gosh, like, that's like the last thing I need to do, but maybe allowing yourself to step back and kind of creating a little bit of. Celebration of what you just completed will actually translate into your pitch because it's pretty monumental. If you think about that. So don't feel like it's a burden to create a pitch. It's actually a celebration. It's just like the last thing and it's like the little crown on top of everything.

Elizabeth: 37:55

I love that. Thank you so much for being here.

Christiane: 37:59

Thank you so much.

38:06

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. We hope you found inspiration, insights, and connection to yourself as a writer. If you enjoyed this episode, please share, subscribe, and leave us a five star review. Remember, the power of storytelling lies within each of us, and by supporting one another, we can make a difference. We invite you to schedule a coffee chat with us on our website, www. inspiredwritercollective. com. Just like our style here on the podcast, our coffee chats are casual and a way to connect about your writing and discover if book coaching or joining our upcoming writing cohorts for memoir and contemporary romance writing are for you. You can also become a part of our community by connecting with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram and YouTube at Inspired Writer Collective, on TikTok at Inspired Writer LLC. Let's continue this writing journey together. You can find links in the show notes. Until next time, fellow writers, may your pens be mighty and your stories captivating. Happy writing!