Episode 1: Writing Life - It's all a bit random, but real life stuff

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[00:00:00] Welcome fellow writers to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast, your go to hub for all things writing. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie. Whether you're a seasoned wordsmith or just dipping your quill into the ink well of creativity, we're absolutely thrilled to have you with us. Drawing from our experience in publishing diverse writing genres and the daily grind of showing up for yourself, we're here to be your writing companions.

Expect insightful discussions, expert tips, and a dash of inspiration as we navigate the twists and turns of the writing journey together. So whether you're listening on your commute, during your writing session, or just relaxing at home, get ready for an immersive experience that celebrates the art and joy of writing.

Hi, 

Just getting into the character's heads in different ways is. So interesting. And I never expected how much they would come [00:01:00] alive on the page. And so it's, it's, that's definitely fascinating to me to see that happen. And, and then the whole world building where, I mean, I am going through a series of prompts of like, Describe what the coffee shop looks like.

Describe, you know, the clothes and apartment and where they're going and all of those details. And I never realized like how important like care really deeply developing the character is. And it's interesting cause I actually went to a romance book, book club and. It was in Columbia, Missouri, and it was so interesting to hear with the book that we read.

There wasn't deep character development, but everybody at the book club wanted more character development. They felt like the character fell really flat. And just [00:02:00] didn't have any depth to her and was kind of an, she, she was supposed to be college age and everybody was like, she was a little bit too much of a deep thinker in some areas for being 20 years old.

So, that was kind of, that was kind of interesting to learn about, like, from the, like, the reader perspective, and I can agree with that from, like, the reader perspective, which I always think sometimes as writers, we don't always remember in the moment to think, like, well, what are the readers? Wanting, you know, it's interesting you talking about that because I feel like with memoir, you're a little bit like hands tied behind your back as far as like the other characters within your story, because it's all in how like in your perception of them or like facts surrounding them.

It's like, You can't really touch, like, what they're thinking and feeling. It's just your perception of what they're thinking and feeling. So I think sometimes they do come off as a [00:03:00] little bit more two dimensional. Or certainly distilled down, you know? But I do think that people that read memoir understand that, like, the only, like, that it's purely your own perspective, and you're the only character in that book that's It's going to have that, that level of like depth and dimension.

Well, and I think readers are of memoir. That's why they're picking it up is that they're wanting to connect with you. They're wanting to connect with, you know, whoever wrote the memoir and that's what they're hoping for is thinking, well, maybe this story will help me understand myself. And so I think that.

The challenge with memoir is that focus on yourself at the same time, though. I mean, it, because the spotlight is on you and how you process things and how you think through things. And so that's also a lot to, to [00:04:00] carry as a writer is making sure that you're very clear in how you're sharing your experiences.

Well, and I found in like, you know, critique situations where I've shared stuff that. All the time I'm presented with questions about, well, what about this? And what about that? Because there's just so much that I just assume because it's my life, you know, I don't think about those things that I have to state because it's just built into my own natural framework that I don't think to, like, explain those things.

And so that's one of those things that either critique groups or beta readers or whatever, like where that real value is in the. The editing process showing you what, you know, where those gaps are from a reader perspective. Where those boys are definitely. Yeah. Well, especially, I mean, and I find this even with any writing that I do is that when I'm too close to it, I don't see [00:05:00] where I haven't explained, you know, where I haven't explained something or given more detail or whatever it might be.

Like, I just think like, oh, the. Everybody just knows because I know or whatever it might be and so yeah, I think it's definitely helpful when you have other people who can give you perspective. Yeah, that was the value I saw in sort of taking that, you know, three, four month hiatus within the middle of my writing of the memoir was because I needed a little bit of distance from those stories from.

Me at that time versus me now. And that's one of the wild things about memoir, too, is, you know, as you grow as a person, as you continue to live life and have, you know, new experiences, those present day experiences can impact how you look back at past experiences. And it can change your perspective to the point that you then I found I've had to rewrite some stories [00:06:00] simply because my perspective is shifted.

But at the same time, I also make a point to try to journal my present day feelings so that that I can capture some of that present day like frustration, angst, excitement, whatever it is before those feelings, you know, feelings are transient. So before they start to change and morph and. You know, gain, you know, context or whatever, but those in the moment, like sensations, I, I try to capture those, at least in my journal so that I can reference how I felt in this particular moment when this news, you know, when I first heard this news versus once I sat down and processed it and sat with my feelings and talk to a therapist and X, Y, Z.

Where I arrived at later. I mean, I think both of those pieces are really, like, valuable insight and really interesting to read, but it's so hard to, like, capture both. Well, and you, and you [00:07:00] bring up so many good things about, like, taking a break and then also just the power of journaling. I mean, especially, and I think this is true even, I mean, for myself, that I know that journaling helps me get like the mess out of my head before I have to sit down and think about what I'm writing and, and certainly for you.

I mean, it's so powerful with. Memoir writing to be able to capture where you were at that moment in time and be able to have that to go back to because I mean, life just passes us by so fast. Most days that. Sometimes you can't remember. I mean, I can't remember maybe what I did yesterday afternoon or how I felt or but to be able to, especially with significant life events and really process that through, through writing is, is so key and definitely journaling is such a great practice.

Yeah. And, you [00:08:00] know, I think that's what like readers of memoir, memoir really want to see anyways, they want to see the character like in the mess grappling with things. Not just like the aftershot of like, oh, this hard thing happened, but now I feel this about it. You know, we want to see the journey. We want to see that that process because when you're in the thick of it, you're looking for any sort of validation that you're going to be able to make it through.

And so I don't find it particularly helpful when I read memoir that's written from such a like, distant perspective and reflection back if there are if they aren't able to tap into like. The heaviness of the moment. Or the, well, yeah, well, positive or negative up or down. Well, exactly. I mean, being, being able to really have the real human emotions.

I think that, because I mean, that's what people are looking for. And I mean, it's the same thing I find even in writing romance that [00:09:00] people want. To read like the real feelings of when people are in love or people get mad at each other or, you know, they don't want, they don't want the like, whatever tension happens between the characters to just be glossed over as like, Oh, well, this is just a minor thing, but now everything's happy.

It's like, no, they're like real things that happen in relationships that. Need to be handled and people want to see like, oh, like I can have a disagreement with someone I care about and it all comes out the other side. And I mean, I think the same, I mean, similarly, I mean, in memoir, people want you to go deep because that's what they're looking for because they're reading it to either get to know you or to work through something that they feel they're connecting with you about and something similar.

So, it's definitely interesting. Yeah, I think the celebrity memoirists benefit from the whole, [00:10:00] like, people are just curious. They want to, you know, understand their lives better. But I think for our rest of us, who are just every day, you know, people living our lives, it's really about finding that, like, universality in our struggles and in the different, like, situations we've had to face and in the, you know, all the different positive moments, like, Here's the feelings I had around having my daughter and here's like the, you know, euphoria of, you know, post birth early motherhood, but then here's the drudgery that suddenly appears in the, you know, the day to day and the isolation and you know, uncertainty of these moments and being able to show all of that.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Motherhood is definitely one of those topics. I, I remember those days of drudgery all too well being in the trenches. And it, I mean, and a lot of people need to feel that. There's that common experience [00:11:00] because as a culture, everything is so glorified like, oh, this is going to be the most wonderful time of your life.

And really for everyone. It's that's not everybody's experience there. There are the realities of, you know, women experiencing postpartum depression in significant ways or just having regrets. And I mean, We need to be real about that and get those stories out there. So people don't feel like, Oh, it's supposed to all be like, you know, pretty tied with a pretty bow.

And there's something wrong with you if everything isn't that way. Yeah, there are times I've sought out those, you know, trying to look to see if I'm the only one who's felt this way or if that's more of a universal thing, like moving into a shared custody schedule and facing that like onslaught of grief of suddenly finding myself not being a full time mom after being a stay at home mom for [00:12:00] the last two years.

And like, in this weird way, I felt like I was like, breathing like the death of my child. And not to say that it's at all similar to what, you know, parents who actually lose a child feel. But I was just like, did anyone else feel like it was this heavy? Am I the only one who's like, really, like, struggling with it to this degree?

And I was like, Googling, you know, to see, like If anyone else who had experienced that, you know, felt that way and how long did they feel that way? You know, how long can I expect to like, you know, feel it to this degree? Does it get better? Does it ever like feel happy or do you use this time just make it, you know, take the, the edge off?

So hearing those other stories is so helpful. Well, it is helpful. And I mean, I know, I mean, also being in a shared custody situation that, I mean, I feel like it's, Often unpredictable and you have [00:13:00] moments where you're, you're enjoying the time you have, but then you're like, but wait a minute, I used to be doing these things, or I wish I was doing these things, or shouldn't I be doing these things and then it can it can start to weigh on you.

I know, like, I definitely have, have been there where, you know, I struggle and then it's the struggle of the, Co parenting and figuring all of that out. So, yeah, it definitely took me by surprise because of what you're saying. Like, initially I felt relief, you know, and finally getting some help with the parenting and having those breaks and like, so I lived in that for a little while.

So when all of a sudden, like the pendulum swung the other way, like, you know, it took me off guard for sure. Yeah, no, it is. It is hard. Like, I know. I mean, I struggle. I mean, my boys are teenagers now and I still [00:14:00] find myself wanting to, like, control certain things or take charge of things, but then also knowing sometimes they're just things that are out of my control.

And that's and that's a hard thing. Like, there are definitely challenges with that. So going back to what you were saying with, like, trying to create, like, basically authentic struggles within the relationships that you're writing about within the romance genre, do you find that you have, you, like, source those within, like, your own experience or those experiences of, like, friends or family members who have, like, confided in you in order to, like, make it more authentic versus, like, you know, the movies we watch on Netflix and whatever else?

I mean, I definitely use a little bit of Netflix for some research. I mean, definitely there's an aspect of using some Netflix dramas, romance for some research, [00:15:00] but it definitely comes from more of my own experience and also sometimes even from like eavesdropping on conversations and. I mean, it's one thing it's one of the reasons why I often like to leave the house and sit in coffee shops or other places to write because sometimes you can get some really interesting conversations that are often surprising that people will just sit and like share their entire life or something and you're like, I'm sitting right here next to you and you're sharing deep thoughts.

But yeah, I mean, that's, yeah. There's definitely a lot that's pulled from different places but yeah, there's, it's definitely, it's definitely sort of a fun part of collecting things that people say and using those and trying to put [00:16:00] those into The, the dialogue, especially when, especially when characters are arguing, like, I think one of my favorite places to eavesdrop, mainly because there's just so many different options is the airport.

I mean, you've got people like. A lot of times in stressful situations, but you also have the people that are, like, going on a fun vacation. So you've got, like, all these different, like, stress levels and intensities, and there's always, I mean, there's so many people around that it's easy to, like, listen in to various conversations, kind of incognito.

But I swear I hear the most interesting things, like when I'm traveling through airports. Oh, air, no, airports are great. And, and then also, if you happen to be seated on a plane, either in front of, usually it's better to hear when you're in front of people, but sometimes if you're behind, if it's a really loud talker, I mean, because I'm thinking about, so the last flight I was on when I was flying from [00:17:00] Seattle to Denver, there was a woman sitting in front of me and she.

She shared very openly that she was like in her 60s sitting next to a young man who shared with her that he was Like, still in college, so in his 20s, and that he was going to visit his girlfriend in Colorado that he hadn't seen in nine months, and so then she was very, she was very loud, and she also ordered herself two glasses of wine on the plane, so that, then of course, like, proceeded to make her louder But I kind of felt for the young guy because she was giving him a lot of advice about how he should be, you know, all the things he should do and this, and then like, you know, asking him a lot of questions about himself.

And in a weird way, it was kind of like she was somewhat flirty with him. And I think that that's why he kept really. Mentioning his girlfriend, because I think she [00:18:00] was kind of, I think she was kind of creeping him out, especially because she had that thing that like some women do. And I, and I noticed it's more common with like women who are older, just I think about like, who liked to like, cause like my mother in law, like when she talks to me, if I'm sitting next to her, she'll like touch my arm the entire time she's talking to me.

And. I mean, I'd probably lose skin if she actually rubbed on like, so anyway, so like, but yeah, it was just hilarious. This conversation, cause I was thinking, wow, she's really loud and this poor guy. And, but that was definitely an interesting, like character truck to like, borrow, like use that as like the, Sort of motivation or inspiration for it.

And then suddenly you have this kind of more like side character in the book. Who's just known for giving unsolicited advice all the time. You know, like we've all met that person, right? Like you, like you're describing [00:19:00] this woman on this airplane, but like, I've met her too, you know? Oh my gosh. I mean, she was, she was a trip because I mean, I was just thinking like.

If I was sitting next to her, I would be thinking, oh, my goodness, is there anything else I could possibly be doing right now? Other than have her continuously give me advice about, oh, you know, with the altitude, you need to drink lots of water and you need to, you know, just a million pieces of advice. I was like, oh, my gosh, the poor guy.

I think he ran in the other direction when he got off the plane. I don't know. I probably would have said that she and then she proceeded when we got to the baggage claim area. There was an older gentleman on the plane who was in a wheelchair and she wasn't with him at all, but she was all of a sudden, like, engaging him in conversation and asking him a million questions and he finally was like, well, you know, my wife is coming to pick me up.

I'm [00:20:00] thinking, wow, this lady is like on. On a, you know, going from like the college student to the, the intense geriatric, like, I mean, she was asking him like so many questions about what color his suitcase was and where had he been and where he traveled from and. And he definitely was not a gentleman who looked like he wanted to be having a conversation with her.

Do you know that when I turned around, he was kind of like poor guy who was a captive audience in his wheelchair, but that's interesting from like a story writing perspective, because if you showed, like, say, you borrowed this character, right? And then you showed them being a little bit questionably flirty with this, like, younger college kid, who's maybe, you know.

But then you show them also having this a similar kind of situation with like the opposite end of the spectrum. Maybe the reader, then you can assume like, oh, she doesn't need to be flirty. I [00:21:00] mean, that's how she's coming off. But that's just who she is. Like, you would understand that. Like, you know, there shouldn't mean anything by it.

That's just she's just. Very friendly. I know it was too funny. It was too funny. Oh, my gosh. But, yeah, no, I definitely agree with you. I mean, there's so many places to get good good character research reality. TV is also another good mind mind numbing experience, but also. You get some interesting characterizations of people.

So I have a question, though, about like how you provide the reader a happy ending, but also make it like realistic and authentic. Or Within the genre, is the happy ending meant to be, like, the reader wants it tied up in a bow, so you give it to them tied up in a [00:22:00] bow, or it's a happy ending of this particular snapshot, and that gives the reader enough, like, peace about it.

Because as we know, like. Real world relationships don't have singular happy endings, happily ever after, you know. Well, I think, I mean, the way I see it is sort of that happy, sort of the happy for now is another way to think about it. Is like, you know, you, you, you tie it up in a way where the reader can feel like there's hope and possibility.

And sometimes, I mean, one of the strategies that. Some writer romance writers use and I haven't decided if I'm going to do this or not yet because I haven't gotten to really to whether or not I want to put an epilogue on, but an epilogue is a really common way for them to put, you know, like, 3 [00:23:00] months later, 6 months later, a year later.

In this book I just read for the book group that I went to it was like nine years later and everybody was like that was the most random length of time like nine years later like okay well yeah because then she's like 29 so it's more realistic that she'd be getting married but like Nine years really for like, they're like, that's a long time for an epilogue, you know, like, all of a sudden jumped that far ahead in time.

And so, yeah, everybody was kind of like, huh, that didn't really work. But, you know, the author already had a 1 bestseller. So now she just jumped on the bandwagon that people would want to read her next 1. So a little bit, I think, was What people were kind of feeling at the end of that, which was kind of interesting.

But yeah, there I mean, there's definitely like, I think about. You know, the end of, of book lovers by Emily Henry. And [00:24:00] it's a very like unexpected, but heartwarming moment between the characters that brings them back together. But, and that's where you're just like, Oh, okay. It's a feel good. Like they're back together.

Cause they had had a distance, you know? And so just, I think just bringing it in a way where everybody feels like. The characters are together and you know, everybody's good. Sometimes like the happy ending, the two characters coming together and just making a commitment that they're going to give it a, a real try versus like success and any sort of like long term marriage type dynamic.

Yeah. It's not always, it's not always marriage. Like I feel like, and I mean, and I, I mean, I've focused more on like. The, like, the contemporary romance as [00:25:00] the sub, the contemporary as the subgenre of romance with the books that I've been reading. So, those are more like, true to kind of our everyday life, and so I'm not as familiar with, say, you know, people who are writing in sort of the paranormal or the, Or other, you know, the more intense, like, erotica end of things, or I think I know how those happen.

Well, yeah. We know how those go. Those are pretty obvious. But yeah, so, I mean, it I think it's very different depending upon the subgenre that people write in but really I feel like with the contemporary it's more true to kind of real life and it's not always marriage like sometimes it is and sometimes that's what comes in the epilogue is like you'll have the characters will come together and then [00:26:00] the epilogue will be like, you know, six months later and you're at the wedding of the characters, um, you know, but it it definitely is all of that kind of Feel good that comes together at the end because some of the books actually like that I've read.

I mean, they, they handle some tough topics sometimes and sort of take. I mean, there can be a lot of tension in the book where you're kind of like. Oh, gosh, there's a lot going on here for these characters or they're having to navigate a lot, but that's where that promise of the happily ever after or the happy for now or that the happy ending is like, okay, I can, I can go through this angst and I can go through this drama and because I know that it's going to work out.

So, I mean, that, you know, that kind of thing of and and sometimes I've read some very terrible [00:27:00] romance. I've listened to some. I mean, I definitely have probably listened to more of them on audible than anything because of all the driving I do. But like, definitely. But there have been some where I haven't wanted to keep listening, but then I'm kind of curious from a writer's standpoint of like, well, how are they going to talk?

Like, how is this going to work out? Like, what is the author doing here? Like, why is this an important detail? Or why is this here? Or why are the characters doing this? And so then, you know, I start listening with a different perspective on like, why is this happening? Or, you know, what are some of the like, disappointing, happy endings that you've.

experienced as a reader of that genre? Oh gosh, I don't know if I can think of, like, I think the ones that just kind of, where they, where things aren't brought together at the end, and I can't think of, [00:28:00] like, specific, trying to think of, like, specific ones. I think the ones where they are good, I just, like, don't remember them because they, like, didn't leave me, like, thinking about them anymore.

Do you know? Just, like, or, or where, or where I didn't really care about the characters enough to really believe that? It would end the way it did, you know, just kind of left me like, Oh, okay. Well. That wasn't that interesting or the one tension was never really that high and so they didn't really have that much to overcome or because the tension was so high that it's like there's no way they're getting past kind of both like they're definitely been somewhere it's like their fight is over something that and you just think like how could you come back from like, how could you come back from that or where there just is too much, [00:29:00] like where the whole book is too much fluff and you're like, yeah.

I mean, there's one author and the happy endings just lackluster because I didn't have to work for it. Yeah, like there's one author and I can't think of the name of the author, but like the books are A couple of books that I listened to were purely, like, centered around phone conversations between the characters.

So there are these endless phone conversations, and then eventually they meet, and it's like, and they like each other, and you're like, eh. Okay. Like, really? That's like the worst aspect of like, online dating in this day and age. I'm like that didn't Endless talking, and then you finally meet, and great, you get along.

Yeah, those were ones where I was like, this is purely because I need something to keep me awake while I'm driving. Like, even if it's mind numbing [00:30:00] and but yeah, it's actually speaking, you definitely have to control your tension because then you don't want it too low, but you also don't want it too high.

Yeah, I think the tension is actually probably the most challenge. One of the most challenging parts is making sure that you keep it long enough. But they keep it believable so that the readers don't like lose, you know, like, because there's so much in romance that's about momentum too. It's like, you've got to keep the momentum going because it's so, it has such a specific pattern and readers are expecting that pattern.

Like they're expecting that, that the characters in the beginning are going to come together in some way. And they know it's not going to happen right away, but somehow they [00:31:00] have to come together and then you have to work through how they eventually end up together. And that's actually what I was struggling with in my book was like, okay, I want to have my main character have this boyfriend that she's moving for, but She also needs to meet the guy that she's going to ultimately fall in love with somewhere in the beginning of the book.

So I finally figured that out the other day, and it's going to be an air, it's going to be a, an airplane. It's going to involve an airport and an airplane and meeting and, and stuff like on the flight from New York to Colorado. She's gonna, she will have had some sort of crash encounter with him, and I'm still figuring it out.

Like, still kind of.

Yeah, it's the meet cute. So and, and, and basically, like, he's going to really [00:32:00] annoy her and. You know, she's all true labs do. Oh, my God. So, you know, but it's like, but ultimately, she's gonna then, like, have him like, she's gonna keep running into him, of course, in the small town as things that, you know, and as things get woven together.

But yeah but speaking of books that it's not really in the romance genre, but it could be characterized as a romance. I just finished listening to lessons in chemistry. Have you seen that book? No. So it's, it's a book that it's been on the, like, I don't know, women's fiction or, and it's kind of been categorized as romance.

But it's, it's set in the late 1950s, early 1960s. And the main character is a woman who just, she just has this strong personality and just pushes back. And she's a scientist, she's a chemist during that [00:33:00] time. And so it's this whole thing about. being a chemist and having like the greatest love of her life who she never marries but they have a child together and and it's And it's just this, it's really, it's really well done.

It definitely deals with a lot of tough issue. Like, I mean, there's, there's That's the one they made a TV show out of, right? Yes. Yes. Cause she, because what happens is, is that she has to figure out how to you know, support herself and her daughter. Because the guy that she's in love with, he, he ends up dying and they never marry.

And so there's, of course that's, and, but there are issues, it deals with issues of sexual assault and having a child out of wedlock and all of these things. But it's just one of those books where, [00:34:00] um, you, you're like getting really mad, like, but it's also like, it has kind of. A happy, like, it does kind of have a happy, like.

Ever sort of, it has that kind of similar thing in the end, but it really, it was, it was very well done. I mean, she clearly did her research. There's and the whole thing is, is that the main character gets hired to do a cooking show, but she does it all. About chemistry, like she teaches chemistry to women who are watching it and so she's teaching the chemistry of cooking and so her whole premises is that she wants to inspire these women to believe in themselves as more than just housewives and all I mean, it's like you just like you just love the light by the end.

You just love the main character. And. You know, you're just like, yeah, it's, it's, [00:35:00] it was, it was very well, like, it's definitely, I, it's definitely worth reading, like, I would read it again just because I thought there were just some things in there to go back to highlight, like, but I mean, I listened to it on Audible, but yeah, it was, it was definitely a good one.

Like, I was pleasantly surprised. With the way you describe her, I'm imagining like a Bones merged with a Julia Child. Yeah, kind of, kind of like, and she's, and she like won't smile, you know, she's like very intense about the fact that, and it's awesome. And like, I mean, and like, for you, like, for yourself, like being a scientist, like, you'd probably really appreciate how she just holds on to that identity throughout the whole book where, like, when people say anything, she's like, but I'm a chemist.

Like, do not question, like, anything else that I do, because I, you know, and, and then, like, [00:36:00] yeah, it's, it's definitely a definitely a good one, like, for, for, like, kind of romance y, but also, like, you know, social commentary, and interestingly enough, like, unfortunately, I mean, there aren't that many things that have changed from that time in history, I mean, and, So, and and you probably would have better, like, knowledge of that having been in a science focused career more.

I mean, you would probably. Understand the dynamic even more like I'm aware of it, but I'm sure that probably there are aspects of your memoir that have stories that are exactly stories that she tells about how she's treated by the men in the science like, yeah, [00:37:00] what's interesting about the forensic science field as it is actually predominantly women.

Interesting, however, what I experienced and maybe this will shift with. Time, but and disproportionate percentage of our leadership, our managers, our bosses, all of that were men, considering that they made up maybe 20 percent of the total demographic. Like, it was pretty probably, like, 80 percent female, 20%, you know, male, but then most of my bosses throughout my career were men.

Despite the fact that there weren't that many men in the field. Wow, that's interesting. That's fascinating. I've thought about, I don't include You know, too much of, like, the day to day of my work in the [00:38:00] memoir, just because it doesn't have much to do with loneliness and connection, and so I only have, like, certain stories that happen to take place while I was, you know, within my career, but I have toyed with the idea of, Writing about it in a fictionalized way to sort of show what that world is like in a factual way, but then with some, like, fictional characters and stories and cases and whatnot.

That would be fascinating. I mean, to To kind of play around can come after me for it. I mean, that might be kind of, I mean, that might be kind of fun in your own way of kind of a way to sort of, like, stare at some of the stories, but I don't know, a whole new level to like a Sue Grafton, like, mystery, you know, thing of, you know, the, the lead, the lead forensic scientist in a lab and like all the things that.[00:39:00] 

Yeah, I almost feel like it's like the grounds for like the office, except it's the lab, you know, like just the day to day business of it. Like, all the cases would be just like background noise, because that's how it really was, you know, like, because you just work one case after another cranking out meeting those quotas every now and again, a case really mattered and was getting media attention and, you know, would become the focus, but really the focus was all of the like, yeah.

Politics within the lab and whatnot, you know your, your own NCIS kind of Mm-Hmm. . Yeah, for sure. That, that, yeah. That would be kind of, I mean, that, that might be a nice brain break for you after like, oh, it sounds like more trauma to me, . Oh no. Maybe not, but maybe it's, maybe if it was fictionalized enough where I could have fun with [00:40:00] it, but like, I don't know.

Some of it might feel a little too real. But if you fictionalize it enough, at least you'd have some, you'd have, you'd have some juicy characters, like, you know, you could, you could really, make something, but then maybe you don't want the attention from former colleagues that oh, well, the worst of them already going in the memoir.

Well, there you go. You've already handled them there. Anything else is just a bridge. You're like, oh, right. Right. All right. Well, I should go. I need to get back to my. Cleaning projects around here, but this was so fun and now we have even more active. We have so much content. 

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