Episode 12: Why a small press might be your best publishing option

Discover the dynamic world of publishing as the hosts share insights from Stephanie's recent attendance at the AWP conference. Exploring the shift from self-publishing to small presses, the Elizabeth and Stephanie discuss the importance of research and finding the right fit for your work.

The episode covers experiences at the conference, where Stephanie engaged with small presses, learned submission preferences, and navigated literary sessions on traditional publishing. The hosts celebrate the journey of querying as a roller coaster, emphasizing the value of learning from rejection.

Technological tools like Scrivener are praised for streamlining the writing and formatting process, while Elizabeth also highlights the strategy of submitting works to literary journals for early exposure and feedback.

Listeners gain practical tips and inspiration for navigating the diverse avenues of publishing, encouraging writers to celebrate their unique journey in bringing their stories to the world.

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Transcript

0:01

Welcome fellow writers to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast, your go to hub for all things writing. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie. Whether you're a seasoned wordsmith or just dipping your quill into the ink well of creativity, we're absolutely thrilled to have you with us. Drawing from our experience in publishing diverse writing genres and the daily grind of showing up for yourself, we're here to be your writing companions. Expect insightful discussions, expert tips, and a dash of inspiration as we navigate the twists and turns of the writing journey together. So whether you're listening on your commute, during your writing session, or just relaxing at home, get ready for an immersive experience that celebrates the art and joy of writing. Hi,

Stephanie: 0:49

Hey, Elizabeth. Hey.

Elizabeth: 0:51

So I know you recently went to a conference in Kansas City. Will you share with us a little bit about what you learned from there and like some of your big takeaways or things that surprised you?

Stephanie: 1:02

Yeah, absolutely. I just, last week I attended the AWP conference in Kansas City, which AWP, if you're not familiar, is the Association of Writers and Writing Programs. And so it was the first time I'd ever attended the conference, and I've known about it before because my sister has attended several times in the past. And since now I've really taken on the title of being a writer, and I wanted to see what it was all about. And one of the things that I really came away with was a renewed perspective on publishing. I've always been very much in the self publishing side of things, and I still believe strongly in that because I think there's a place for that for sure. But what I saw when I was there is that there are so many Opportunities and what it comes down to is really doing research and finding out where the small presses are, what kind of books they're looking for, what kind of authors they're publishing and is, of course, a great. Place to discover that because you end up in this enormous room at the convention center In kansas city where there just feels like there's hundreds of tables set out and the possibility to explore top your book around if that's what you're doing. I wasn't doing that at the time but just even walking up and down the aisles and interacting with people and seeing what they were doing calls for submissions and It's a great way to become familiar with it and it makes it less scary

Elizabeth: 2:50

We're writers showing up with, like, pages is that or were they just establishing, you know, future, query opportunities or what, what did it look like? I know you said you weren't doing it for your own book, but. Yeah, well,

Stephanie: 3:04

What I noticed is that some, writers simply had a business card and they were going around and they had a short one liner about their book and a little bit about who they were and it was more conversational as opposed to people walking around carrying a manuscript or anything like that. And there were definitely a lot of sessions at the conference that were geared towards publishing. And I, because of my limited time when I was there I only attended a couple of sessions and those were specific to, authors who were debuting novels or publishing after age 50 was another one. But in all of those, the conversation, of course, always comes back to publishing, how did you get published? How did you do it? So that was, that was where I learned. A lot more information, a lot of it very general, you know, they weren't specific as to, who their specific press was, but it was more along the lines of this is a possibility for you and you can do this and. Of course, one of the big messages is that, number one, if you want to make a lot of money, chances are that's not where you're going to start. But that you also have to be willing to be, if you're going to go the traditional publishing route, that you have to be willing to be in it. For the long haul that there is a lot of time between when you're querying your book and getting responses. And then although 1 person did say that it's the idea of. Go slow to go fast, because once you. Become accepted by a press. Things just start to tumble and all of a sudden you're surrounded by all these people who are, you know, helping you along and so they're, they're different. There's different pacing along the way with getting yourself to the point of publishing.

Elizabeth: 5:08

That sounds almost like when you're riding a roller coaster, and it's like each query is like that chinking up that first hill, like, no, no, no, no, next one, next one. And then when it finally hits, when you finally reach that point, then it's like, now you have editors, now you have book designers, now you have people that are like, Helping you craft your message and and getting it out

Stephanie: 5:29

there. I love I love that imagery because it's so true because it can feel like forever when you're inching up that incline on a roller coaster and. And also just even the feelings you're having as you're doing that of anxiety and like, oh my gosh, what's going to happen? Am I going to be okay? And I think all those emotions come into play too when you're querying. And one of the things that they did talk about, of course, is that, you know, celebrate your rejection. Like, it's not a bad thing. It just means, it wasn't the right fit. But a lot of the authors talked about how when they would get a rejection, it was an opportunity to look at their book again with fresh eyes, or if they had a book of short stories or poems, or it just allowed them to go back and say, oh, okay, maybe there are some places and they didn't always get specific feedback, but they always felt like after they had a rejection that it was a chance to say, okay, I need to look at this again. And, you know, other little changes would be made along the way. Right, just like that

Elizabeth: 6:31

roller coaster analogy. Each no still helps you move forward. You're not staying in the same place. You're not moving backwards. It's just a part of that

Stephanie: 6:40

climb. Absolutely. I mean, every step of the way is an opportunity for learning and they do talk about how, I mean, one thing I was one presentation, it was 99 queries before finally getting the one acceptance. Once they did that one time and they learned. The process, it got easier every time, you know, the next time it was only 57 queries and then it was down to 23 and it was really understanding who the presses are and targeting more specifically because she shared about how she started out so broad and not really having a sense of where her book would fit, but with each time she learned how to narrow her focus to where she knew exactly which presses to target and that's the other thing that I found interesting too is that Several authors shared that they weren't with the same press every time, so there's not necessarily this need to Stay with the same press especially if you're writing in a different genre or something different that doesn't fit with the press where you published one book You can go to another one and it goes along the lines where they talk to about how you know, be okay with Firing your editor and firing the person, even your agent, you know, maybe it's not a good working relationship. Be okay with saying this isn't working for me. I need to go with someone else. And at the end of the day, really holding on to the integrity of your work and not just giving it away that you want to make sure you're getting your needs met as the author as much as wanting to get your book out there into the hands of readers.

Elizabeth: 8:25

That's so interesting. It really seems like you got exposed to the fact that it's so much bigger than the big 5 publishers. Like, the choices are much more diverse than you either get picked up by the big 5, which good freaking luck if you're an unknown person, you know, not a celebrity putting out a expose or something versus you can only self publish. And then there's downsides of that too. It seems like this really helped you see. The much wider variety of options for publishing. Do you mind sharing a little bit about your experience with self publishing your first book, your non fiction?

Stephanie: 9:00

Yeah, so I was very fortunate, of course, when I was going the self publishing route to have the support of my book coach. And so, you know, she read every aspect of the book and helped me organize it and put it together. And then I had somebody edit it. And that helped me get it ready for publication and it, it was a pretty quick, quick steps in succession from once I said, okay, I'm getting this published and and then it was, setting the date and sticking to that, which, of course, made it more real. And I, of course, had all the feelings of, I don't know if this is ready to be out there in the world. And I was publishing it in alignment with my previous business of helping college bound students with their college application process. So it was nonfiction, which is different than what I'm working on now with the fiction and contemporary romance. But I found the whole process to be very easy and, and I feel confident in what I put out there. Cause I know there's often, a lot of people think like, Oh, if it's self published, it's not good enough. And since I worked with a book coach, I worked with an editor and I got it really tight. And then I actually designed my own cover through Canva and was able to get that looking how I wanted it to look and then I used the the Amazon Kindle publishing and it was once I had it in the right, the document in the right format. As easily able to upload it and right now it's just an ebook. I didn't do a print version just because I knew that I wasn't going to be promoting it a huge amount, but it was more of going through the process because I wanted to have the experience and say, okay, I did this. I've had the experience. But then I had a whole shift in my identity as a writer but I really appreciate having that learning process because having self published, I have that experience and now, of course, after this conference, I have a renewed perspective on, I might self publish again, or I might find a smaller press for my book and self publish it again. Go that route, because I saw all the possibilities and I think I think sometimes it's easy to forget when we're writing and if we're. Writing, you know, by ourselves most of the time which we, of course, encourage, you know, finding a community and connecting with others because it motivates that process along, but that sometimes you can forget about all the opportunities that are out there and available to you as a writer. And I think that that's good to remember to think about doing the research about publishing. It makes it less scary. And of course, you know, AWP made it less scary for me because I could see like, oh, wow, you know, there are all these people who want to put your work out there in the world. Right, and

Elizabeth: 12:25

you and I have recently been using, I know you didn't use Scrivener for your writing your last book, but you and I are both using Scrivener now to write our current books and part of what attracted me to that program when I saw it demonstrated by another writer friend of ours who chose to self publish was the ease of that formatting process and sort of the automation and the way you can export the material in a bunch of different formats. Depending on how you're going to go about publishing it, there's the ones to go, you know, that fit the KDP, the Kindle Direct Publishing format or whatnot, as far as sending pages to your editor, if they wanted it in PDF or Word, it was very easy to export your work. In that way, plus there's so much integration for whatever part of the writing process you're in, whether you're outlining there's these, like, essentially virtual postcards that you can create and reorder and move around. And then once you actually start doing your rough draft, and then now for me and my editing process, there are labels and tags I can apply to things. So I know exactly where I started and stopped versus. Originally, I had to migrate mine over from a Word document, but my, at, you know, the point that it was, you know, 50, 000 words with a rough draft, it was so difficult for me to be able to quickly jump to the part of the book that I needed to work in, and so I wonder if you could speak to that, too, as well, the improved technology that you're using this time versus your

Stephanie: 13:57

first time. Oh, definitely. I love Scribner. I will drink the Kool Aid all day long about using Scribner. Because I used Google docs before and I know that word like Microsoft word is. generally the standard within a lot of writing communities. There are a lot of writers who are very wed to their love of word, which is great. And you know, I definitely respect that, but I will say that Grivner has up leveled my ability to stay focused, my ability to go right to the chapter on my left. Column of navigation in Scrivener, I can go right to the chapter that I need to work on. I don't have to scroll through so many pages to find where I am. I can have notes over to the side. 1 of the things yesterday when I was writing. Is I had an idea come to mind and I could jump right over to the side in my notes column, type something that I was thinking that I can come back to later. And then I could keep going with where I was going and like you said, you know, there's the simulated corkboard. If there's someone who loves to do index cards, I know a writer I follow I saw on her. Instagram, she had like note cards all over a window and you know, some people that works, but if you're more into the technology, Scrivener has this great way of organizing so you can see how your chapters flow. You can do character sketches where you can create your entire, you know, bio and of course, like you said, the ability to export it in so many different formats is so helpful because that was a point of frustration when I had my Google Doc and doing the KDP publishing is the Kindle direct publishing was that I had to have it in an EPUB format. And that was not something that was easy to come by. Coming out of Google Docs. So if I remember correctly, I think I put it in Word and then I was able to do it. But of course, that felt very cumbersome and complicated and Scrivener definitely streamlines that process and. You know, I really appreciate the usability of it. It's really, to me, user friendly. I didn't feel like the learning curve was that hard to get started with it. And again, I just appreciate, and like you said, the ability to. But tags in so you can know which chapters, which characters are in or which you know, specific words or focus you can jump to and it makes it a lot easier for sure.

Elizabeth: 16:29

And speaking of publishing 1 other thing I wanted to highlight that I've been doing preemptive to, you know, completing my. Memoir and going through the queries and trying to find a press or whatever is I have been submitting chapters of my memoir and short stories for literary journals. So, for those of you that are unfamiliar, you can go to submittable, which is a site that houses a bunch of the writing contests or submission protocols for a number of. Literary magazines, online websites, that sort of thing. Some of them, there are fees in order to enter and they range. Sometimes the contest have a payout. Sometimes it's just publication. It really depends, but they will list what kind of genres they're looking for, what sort of stories they're looking to to publish and share. And some will stipulate that it needs to be a previously unpublished work, or it's fine if it's, an excerpt from something else that's already published. But that is a great way to get your byline out there, too, so that when you do, you know, launch your publication, whether you do it self publishing or otherwise, you can say things like, Oh, also featured in, and list a couple of magazines and things. Plus, this is some of those early chinks of the roller coaster, where, I submitted a story to one of the publications, and I didn't get any feedback, but I also didn't get it accepted. And then, upon looking back at that story, kind of what you were alluding to, Stephanie, then I could see, oh, yeah, you know what, this needed to be cleaned up a little bit. I wonder if this, you know, it just took too long to get to the exciting, engaging part. You know, let me rework this chapter. I gained some insight from feedback from our writers group. And that really helped me and so now I'm working on editing a section of my memoir about Mother's Day last year, and I plan to submit it in 1 of the contests that closes at the end of February. So, I believe that publication of the story would time. Well, with actually Mother's Day. And so that's what I'm working on now, but that I just wanted to mention that as another way to get some feedback, get some experience with doing the query process and working with editors and working with publications prior to the actual publicizing of your novel or memoir or whatever you're working on.

Stephanie: 19:01

Absolutely, and it's great that you mentioned that because there was. Some chatter at the A. W. P. conference about submitting the literary magazines and they talk about how it's really a great thing to do when you're at the emerging writer stage and. They just caution about making sure that you do your research, that you're not spending more on submitting than you could possibly earn if you submit to a contest but to be very specific and find the right home for your story. And it sounds like you're doing that with yours, which is great. And I mean, they talk about, you know, somebody mentioned. Striving for a hundred submissions a year which is definitely a lofty goal

Elizabeth: 19:47

Wow.

Stephanie: 19:48

But, they do say though that if you push yourself towards that, and if you do get a positive rejection they'll remember your name. And they'll remember that you submitted before and it's kind of an encouragement of like like maybe this piece didn't work But maybe you have something else and they also say that with like which I thought was interesting with your bio and stuff They said it's okay to be boring and bland in your bio for any of these contests or anything you're submitting for because You know be trying to be cutesy and creative is not what most of the people who are reading your bio, we're looking for it. They want the straight facts. In a lot of cases, depending upon where you're submitting the editor or whoever is reading the submissions is probably. In the world of academia, because certainly at AWP, which there's a huge focus on writing programs, lots of professors, lots of adjuncts, lots of people who are in that realm, and they want the straight information. Doesn't need to be cutesy. It needs to be straightforward and they want the information there. They want to know where you've been published. They don't need to know about how you like to spend your Sunday afternoon.

Elizabeth: 21:03

Yeah, the only other thing I would add to that is if you have some aspect of yourself that would fall into, like, the diverse voices category to make sure you do highlight that in your bio, especially if it's not something that's readily obvious, based off of the story you're submitting because that is a big push is to publish from diverse authors, diverse writers, diverse voices. So if you have something that that would fall into that diversity category. Then do emphasize that in the bio because that may clue someone into the fact that this is is more in line with their publishing goals and what the kind of writers that they're looking to publish.

Stephanie: 21:46

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I 100 percent agree with that. That's a great. That's a great comment to add. There's no doubt that at this particular convening of a WP, that there was a huge emphasis on diverse voices, whether it was, indigenous voices or L. G. B. T. Q. TIA plus it's very important to have those. Voices represented, and so definitely share that if that's how you identify yourself. Yeah, I

Elizabeth: 22:21

think just the big theme of of this chat today is just that there are so many more avenues for getting your unique story out there that if you have this nagging untold story, that is stuff to the back of the drawer or that just. In those quiet moments, you think about, I did always want to write that fictional character and how cool would it be if I could create this fantasy world that I imagine sometimes in my head or turning the stories that you tell to your kids at night into an actual children's book. Whatever that is, there are so many opportunities to get your voice out there and your story is valuable and we hope that you'll find some inspiration in this conversation today and know that there is a path to publishing and this podcast is here to help you do that. If you're looking for more engagement, our community is here to help people do that as well. And we just want to be here to support you in whatever way we can.

23:25

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. We hope you found inspiration, insights, and connection to yourself as a writer. If you enjoyed this episode, please share, subscribe, and leave us a 5 star review. Remember, the power of storytelling lies within each of us, and by supporting one another, we can make a difference. We can amplify our voices and craft narratives that resonate with the world. We're not just about words on a page. We're passionate about the craft, the process, and building a supportive community. Become a part of our community by connecting with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram and YouTube at inspired writer collective on Tik TOK at inspired writer LLC by joining our writing community online at inspired dash writer. Dash collective.mn.co and let's continue this writing journey Together, you can find links in the show notes. Until next time, fellow writers may your pens be mighty and your stories captivating. Happy writing.