Episode 21: Outline your way to a finished book

Outline your way to a finished book. In this episode, we talk about the benefits of outlining to help get you to the finish line with your book. We share about our own experiences and Elizabeth gives a sneak peek into how she's helping writers in her memoir course approach outlining.

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Transcript

0:01

Welcome fellow writers to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast, your go to hub for all things writing. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie. Whether you're a seasoned wordsmith or just dipping your quill into the ink well of creativity, we're absolutely thrilled to have you with us. Drawing from our experience in publishing diverse writing genres and the daily grind of showing up for yourself, we're here to be your writing companions. Expect insightful discussions, expert tips, and a dash of inspiration as we navigate the twists and turns of the writing journey together. So whether you're listening on your commute, during your writing session, or just relaxing at home, get ready for an immersive experience that celebrates the art and joy of writing. Hi,

Stephanie: 0:51

Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: 0:53

Hey, Stephanie.

Stephanie: 0:56

Hey, listener. Welcome to our podcast today. We're really excited to jump into talking about the value of outlining. I've definitely wrestled with this topic. But Elizabeth is right in the midst of her course right now and has just come off of a meeting about outlining. So she's going to share some of what she's gleaned from that experience of working with writers and directly with that. And then we'll both kind of jump in and back and forth and share about how outlining works for us.

Elizabeth: 1:33

Absolutely. It's The outline was one of those really insufficient areas for me when I started to write my memoir, which is why it's such a heavy focus. It's essentially two, two and a half weeks of my four week memoir course. Last week was the core message, which, you know, we've had numerous podcast episodes about the significance of that. And so today we launched into the basic outline. So using the six elements of plot, like exposition, inciting incident. climax, those sort of things. And so looking at what each of those are and what from our personal lives would fall into each of those categories. And in doing this process and prepping for this course, already knew that my kind of catalyst moment or inciting incident was coming too late in the book. That I was spending way too much time and like the setup and establishment of how I lived in my world pre catalyst and that through this course creation, I'm essentially working the course alongside the participants, because taking a look at where really was that turning point? Where was that moment? Where I could not go back to the world before that moment. and, and there is a key point for me within my story. And as I was helping guide these participants through that process of figuring it out for themselves, interesting the, the level of struggle that we have to identify really where that turning point is. Because sometimes it's a big thing. it's very directly related to the, like, conflict that's going to then occur throughout, like, Act 2 and ultimately get resolved, you know, in Act 3. But sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's something a little bit more, that seems more minor or doesn't seem like a conflict in and of itself, but it fundamentally changes things. The world that you exist in, you know, it could be something like the pandemic and how the pandemic suddenly changed everyone's world. Even though the pandemic is not necessarily the conflict that you're going to overcome throughout the course of the memoir, it fundamentally changed the way that we operate in our world. And could be the catalyst of someone's book. I found that, in particular, like, of the, you know, six elements of plot, that was the one that was particularly difficult, for people to grasp. And, while it can be something minor, also has to be, at least in memoir, something that pushes against that core misbelief that you start out the book with, right? So in that ordinary world, you have some sort of misbelief. For me that was a misbelief that if I showed up fully as myself, I wouldn't be accepted. I would be ostracized. I prioritized connection over, you know, authenticity. And so there were a certain set of like choices that I would typically make because of this misbelief that I have. And that is the misbelief that I then overcome throughout the telling of the memoir, but the catalyst was something that was presented to me and I made decisions based on my misbelief, right? Still prioritizing connection and community over my own needs and my own best interests, and then I really suffered for it. And then that's, that's what takes you into the, you know, the act two, right? So there's that element of it too, that it's, not just an incident that changes your external world, but it forces you to come up against that internal belief, that internal conflict, and is what starts that whole journey. So, as far as for the course, the memoir course, you know, I presented the six elements of plot, but then I also have presented a couple of different frameworks, because those six elements can be broken up into a myriad of different frameworks. You know, sub points. I think the hero's journey is particularly helpful. And breaking that down a little bit and then for a more like extreme version, a more fleshed out version would be the save the cat beats that come from screenwriting. That's what I'm going to get into with my group next week. So this week I'm just having them come up with what's their ordinary world, what's that beginning point, what does their world look like where they have this misbelief, what's their day to day look like. And then what conflicts occur that would include both the catalyst, but also those like dark night of the soul moment, that crisis moment that comes later in act two. So what are all those conflicts that they're going to face and deal with and have to make decisions on? And then ultimately, what's that end picture? What is that that mirrors or bookends that opening original scene? How are they going to show, you know, that they've adopted a new belief and solidly believe it and how they're showing up differently now than in the beginning. And I, I gave the example which comes from, you know, the Save the Cat book of Legally Blonde, where in the beginning, know, Elle Woods, her whole mission is to get back her boyfriend, right, and that's why she decides to go to law school, that's what sends her into Act II and this whole new world and Harvard Law, right? But then we get to that final scene where he's trying to get back with her and she's like, no, And we know that that's not the Answer she would have given at the beginning of the movie so we can see that growth Because we see a very different choice from her when presented with a very similar thing like we know how she would have chosen in the beginning and Now we see her doing something different and that's sort of that full circle of the hero's journey of returning back To sort of a beginning point but coming back changed grown different

Stephanie: 8:22

Well, and that's, I mean, that's such a great example because I'm sure many of our listeners are very familiar with that movie and also just thinking about, as you talked about, just all of the conflicts along the way that changed and shaped the ultimate decision making. And I think it's interesting when I was listening to you talk about you know, the challenges that we face. That writers face with thinking about, well, what is the point at which things shifted and changed? I wonder if, especially with memoir, if because it's sort of looking at your own life, that sometimes you don't want to think about certain events that maybe are the ones that created change or caused a different shift in your world. Because I know thinking about, you know, my writing, you know, I'm kind of one, I'm one step removed. I have my characters and I'm putting them in situations and I'm, Coming up with, you know, different things that they're going to be faced with, although I will say that some are probably going to be reflected, of course, on my own experiences, but there's still that point of being slightly removed. So I can see that resistance coming up for, you know, wanting to make. I mean, there's sort of this natural tendency. We want to make things seem okay. We don't want to think about some of the hard stuff. But I think that as we've talked before, the huge value with memoir is touching upon the hard stuff because we are human and we all have hard stuff. And to bring that around and have people feel seen and. I mean, it's one of the reasons why I'm such a huge fan of Abby Jimenez's books as a contemporary romance author and why I look to her as a mentor with my own writing because she does touch upon tough subjects and, but in such a thoughtful way. And. I think it's true too with memoir. And I think that that's where outlining can really help because it can keep you focused on where you're going so that you don't lose

Elizabeth: 10:34

something else

Stephanie: 10:34

of the message. Right.

Elizabeth: 10:37

I I see in fiction writing so much of the time the catalyst is something really negative But with memoir, it's important to remember that it can be something that is inherently positive, like starting a new job, a move to a new town, right, or graduating college, and now you're out in the world as an independent adult, and so your world has fundamentally changed, and the conflicts may come after that, but the catalyst itself does not have to be positive. A attack, a car accident, a job loss, or, you know, a moment of crisis in and of itself. And I think that's where people get hung up, especially with memoir, because so many of the fictional versions that we see of the catalyst, like Elle Woods getting broken up with by her boyfriend, When she thinks he's going to propose you know, like they're, they're very, you know, inherently negative on the surface, but that may not be catalyst in your memoir.

Stephanie: 11:43

Well, that's and that's great to clarify, because I think that that allows for that distinction between the two. And, and there are a lot of positive things. And it's interesting, because I was reading something the other day, just in relation to romance writing about, you know, why does every. Big shift in the book have to be a breakup. Why does that have to be? The way things kind of fall apart for the main, you know for the main characters as they go along and I and it made me stop and think about how You know, that's a really interesting way to reframe some of the potential shifts for the characters that maybe it doesn't have to be something That's that dramatic because is that really realistic in life? I mean, we, if we break up with someone, we're not necessarily inclined to want to go back to that. So,

Elizabeth: 12:41

we all breaking up with the love of our life at some point in the relationship? I don't think so.

Stephanie: 12:47

no, I mean, it, it's not always realistic. So yeah, but, and again, that just goes back to, you know, going back to your outline and thinking about what are. You know, the different stages that your character goes through. And I was thinking about it because I've also reworked some of mine. And one of the things that I did when I sat down because I reworked the, the three act plot structure and kind of took from different things. And I was thinking about how Just sitting down and going with, like, my first gut reaction to what the prompt was to prompt me to think about the different aspects of the development of my plot was really helpful to not get stuck in trying to figure it out all at once. Because the reality is, some of it is going to change. But just being able to get that initial instinctual, like, okay, these are my main characters. This is what they're doing. This is what, and the part where I was kind of stuck was like, well, are they going to break up? Or what is the, that's, I wasn't really sure like how that's going to look. So that's actually blank still right now on my outline. But some of the other things are, are there. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 14:10

I can't tell you how many times I've outlined this one book. Right. You know, I did like a cursory outline back when it was still a, Self help memoir combo and that was grouped more by like theme and lessons, right? Because it was very self healthy at that point then I had to redo the outline when I transitioned it completely in a memoir and then Once I got the divorce that changed the the storyline a good bit and I added in a bunch more I did a reverse outline, which I think is really helpful. That's where you look at what you already have You fill that into an outline and then look for where the gaps are to fill in those gaps You then as I said, you know, I, I realized that I was just so much like probably half the book is set up. It takes too long to get to the catalyst. So, unfortunately, I'll probably have to cut, you know, a good 20 words. And some of those will still come back in as like flashbacks, because some of that information is still important to the reader to understand some of those prior events. But there's a lot of it that can just, like, Just that just needs to go, right? so I think I say all of this just to say that An outline is something that you do and revisit over and over and over again throughout your writing process and as much as you like Fully flush it out in the beginning You are very likely to revisit it throughout, you know, the writing and editing process. I mean, I think that's just so important Simply good practice. Maybe the writers who, you know, have like 70 books out and have a very formulaic way of writing because they, they hit all the same kind of like points and beats are more versed in this. And I could see definitely it being easier for fiction and for memoir because of the limitations you have of the only stories you can pull from are the stories you've lived. You can't just like

Stephanie: 16:02

Yeah

Elizabeth: 16:02

like, oh, I need a crisis woman here. Let me, the dog dies, you know. And and so I say that to say that the guide that you've created is something that anyone at any point in the writing process should take a look at and just see if their stuff is fitting in there correctly. If they've, you know, put something, like timing wise, like if it doesn't fall in the right place, because that speaks to reader expectation. That's what I was really coming up against with having so much setup essentially you're going to get feedback that, oh, the story is kind of boring. It has no direction. Oh, I stopped reading it. I ended up like putting it down. so those are the sort of feedback we want to avoid by having a really solid outline. it's not just, do you have these moments, but are they occurring at the right pacing in the book? And so if you're at any point in the process, I think it's important to periodically go back and revisit your outline.

Stephanie: 17:12

No, I absolutely agree with you because I, this is not the first time I've sat down to outline either. I've definitely had several iterations of outlining and I mean, originally I started and I've shared on previous podcasts originally, I started like, Oh, okay, I have this idea. I'm just going to write, I'm going to go kind of the pants or style of writing. But then I realized with my own sort of lack of focus sometimes that it's really helpful to have the outline as a. a place to keep me in line with where I'm going. And it makes it so much easier to get the writing done, not allow myself to get distracted, or, you know, have, you know, sort of shiny object of like, oh wait, but this idea could work, or this idea could work, or my characters could do this, or, you know, but if I, but keeping it true to where I started, what my purpose was from the beginning, and, you know, Having the outline there is that is that touchstone for Okay. Where am I? Where am I going? Am I staying true? And I love what you said about, you know, reader expectations because certainly in the genre that I'm writing, and there are huge reader expectations. I mean, I've, I've. read and listened to so many contemporary romance books over the past couple of years. And there is, there are the beats to those books, you know, when things are coming. And for example, I always know that in the last sort of 20 to 30 minutes of the audio book is when everything's gonna get wrapped up. I mean, it's just very predictable. It's like, Oh, okay, there's that much time left. Okay, this is where everything's going to be sort of tied up and in some, you know, neat little package. And but there are those predictable point and I, And I think when you have a very specific type of reader, they are looking for that. And we've talked about this before, too, for you with memoir, about, you know, if you're putting a blurb on the back of the book that's talking about how the memoir shares a transformation in some way, and you're like, Oh, I'd love to know how that happened. But then you, but then If you were to read it and there wasn't really evidence of any transformation, then it's not giving you what you were expecting as the reader.

Elizabeth: 19:33

Right. Right. And I think as it, so the last, the week four step of the memoir course is really looking at character development and character arc. I think if I hadn't already noticed the issues the long setup in the outlining portion, I would have found that once I looked at the character arc as far as like the What's been motivating this character to make this choice? What problem is this solving? I would see how extraneous some of this background information is, which is why I think either in conjunction with the outline or as another step of the outline looking at what the internal events are that are happening because plot and outline that's all the external, you know, cause Then the character makes a decision and there's a fit and effect and then that presents a new cause and then the character makes a decision Decision and then there's an effect but our decisions on the outside sometimes Go towards our goals or sometimes we're holding ourselves back from our goals for whatever reason and So looking at the deeper Internal character development too in conjunction with that and making sure that the reader understands Why the character is making this decision at this point Is also fundamental to eventually like more full fleshed outline And a lot of at least what the referencing that i'm using within the course comes from story genius and looking into I mean, even for fiction, I mean, she's writing for fiction, it does talk about what is that, your main character's misbelief about themselves. And you, you have two characters, two main characters in a contemporary romance, so what are both of their misbeliefs about themselves and how does that press against one another to become the source of the conflict so then the conflict can feel more authentic because it's not necessarily even something that's externally happening. Or maybe it is something that happens externally, but it's pushing against, you know, one of the character's misbeliefs, and then they respond in such a way that then triggers the other person's misbelief, and that's where the conflict really comes up, you know, as opposed to just a breakup, right?

Stephanie: 22:13

Right.

Elizabeth: 22:13

find, like, a more authentic, real feeling. example of relationship struggle once you dig deeper into the character motivations and goals.

Stephanie: 22:29

Exactly. Yeah. No, I think that, I think that that's a great point in terms of thinking about the value of having the outline to make sure that you're touching, keeping the message consistent throughout the book as well. And thinking about staying true to who your characters are. And of course, in memoir, staying true to who you are and making sure that that, you know, comes through. As you're writing and, you know, the outline can of course be as detailed or as sparse as you want it to be, but I think the more points that you can put into it help allow for building that really good tension between whether it's you with yourself or You know, your character with another character and really having that thought through in a, in a full, you know, sort of coming full circle, because I think one of the things that I've noticed that where some books can fall short is if they start out one place, but then they don't. ever keep circling back to the, the points as they go. Because naturally as readers, I mean, we can't remember everything we read. I mean, certainly there probably are people who, you know, remember every single thing they read, but we're reading and we're absorbing the story and it's always helpful to keep that in mind. Keep sort of coming back and touching upon those common points throughout and the outline can allow you to say to look and say, okay, I touched upon this here. I need to keep circling back in each of the acts so that the reader. is still with you, but also it's realistic in terms of how we work as people is that we circle back to feelings and experiences. And, you know, our, our life is not linear, you know, an event doesn't just happen. And then all of a sudden we're moving on to the next thing and we've forgotten about that. It just, it allows for that you know, consistency in your writing and It's just a, it's just a great tool I think to, to have. And I know some people are very resistant to it and maybe Listener, you're someone who is able to sit down and be a pantser and everything just happens for you. But I know I've certainly learned for myself that was shifting to fiction writing, that it's just as valuable for me as a fiction writer, as it was for nonfiction. I know for my nonfiction writing. I mean, having my outline where I had my headings and my subheadings. figured out before I even started was so helpful to keep me focused on what is it that I, what are the important points that I want to touch upon? And I've even thought about that, even though I have, you know, the, the three act structure, but even within that, each of those can be, you know, the status quo. Okay. What's the ordinary life? Well, what are the pieces underneath that? What are the subheadings? To that part of the book and then going on to okay. Well, what happens that kind of triggers a shift and then, and, and so on. And so I think that it's been really helpful for me to make sure to outline.

Elizabeth: 26:03

Yeah, through the numerous workshops that I've attended recently and hearing writers, published authors talk about their processes, it does seem like there's a trend where the plotters spend more time in the upfront with the outlining and the pantsers spend more time in the editing. So either way, you're going to put in the work somewhere, and then it all boils down to personal preference, whether you prefer to just do get the words out on paper and you prefer to let your characters sort of dictate the direction and then you make it, you know, you edit it to fit those beats and those points. For memoir I just think it's just not an option because you're so limited in what your character can do anyways because you're by what actually occurred in your life that I, I don't really see in you. reason to pants that of writing you're just making so much more work for yourself in the editing process where a lot of those stories can't really be reworked, they just have to be cut, and that's, that is a waste of potentially your, your time and energy that could be better spent just on the front end doing the outline.

Stephanie: 27:19

Well, and that's why you're providing so much value for those who are participating in your course is giving them this structure from the beginning so that then it saves time in the longterm for, and, You know, the book will get done faster because of having the organization as opposed to sort of, trying to guess at how to accomplish the writing.

Elizabeth: 27:46

Sure.

Stephanie: 27:46

listen, I know

Elizabeth: 27:48

How do you foresee people using the three plot act structure and guide that, that you have available?

Stephanie: 27:55

well, I see it much in the same way that you've talked about resources that you shared, that it's a great point of reference for helping you get your writing organized. And like I said, I printed it out and I just went through it sort of right from the gut reaction of, okay, who are my characters? What's their ordinary world? And going on to the complication and then, you know, what's the piece that causes the next shift for the character and then the going into the conflicts and and so forth and I think it's a helpful reminder of thinking about Sort of the pacing for the book sort of the three act structure, especially with romance writing is around like, you know, maybe 10 to 12 chapters for the first act and you know, sort of adding to that as you go into the second, another 10 to 12 chapters and so forth. So it kind of helps to think about you know, how to move through the novel. And again, I think it's just another tool for your toolbox as a writer to have a strategy that is helpful for, for planning. And I mean, with anything you can, use it as much as you want to use it or tweak it to shift to fit your style a little bit better. But you know, it outlines the, the structure for you, provides a prompt for things that you can think about for that part of the book and, you know, space for you to jot that down. And the three act structure naturally mimics our way of storytelling. You know, there's the beginning act one, the middle. Act two, the end, act three, it naturally, it ties into that flow of how we tell stories.

Elizabeth: 29:51

Yeah, I gave an example today when, in just presenting the like three acts and the six elements of plot I found sort of an outline of the three little pigs, right? Which is a story we're all very familiar with. You know, the three little pigs set off and they go to build each of their houses. That's the, like, the exposition or, you know, beginning of, of act one. And then The wolf comes and shows up. That's the start of the conflict. That's that

Stephanie: 30:16

Yeah.

Elizabeth: 30:16

That is what takes you into act two, right? And then the wolf attacks, you know, the first two houses and then makes an attempt on the third house. And then your, your climax point at the end of act two that takes you into act three is when he's getting ready to calm down the chimney in the third house, you know, the house made of bricks. And then ultimately he gets boiled in the pot and runs away into the woods and the pigs live happily ever after. Right. And, you know, it's, I think it's helpful to see such a simplistic story kind of imprinted onto that so you can more easily grasp. the, the overall concept and I think the prompts that you've included within your three act plot plan are going to really help people tap into what those portions and those beats really mean and help elicit that, that inspiration and imagination. So

Stephanie: 31:18

And

Elizabeth: 31:20

go ahead.

Stephanie: 31:21

I was just going to say that you can find this resource on our website and join our newsletter and you'll get all of our resources and information that we're sharing that and become a part of our community. And we'd love to. You know, have you with us each week in the same way that you're here with us listening. We'd love to jump into your inbox every Monday as well to provide you with these resources that we're developing for our community and just to know what's upcoming. And I know that we have some upcoming guest podcasts that are going to be very exciting.

Elizabeth: 32:08

Yeah. Listener. We have a series of guests podcasts that we're going to be recording within the next few weeks. So please subscribe to our channel. Please follow this podcast so you don't miss those. We're going to have someone who's going to present the five steps to and so we're going to be speaking to a publisher, who is going to be doing your elevator pitch for pitching your book, whether that's to an agent or whether that's simply when you have to go do the marketing of the book yourself, which we all have to do as published authors, no matter what route of publication we take. We are going to be speaking to a published children's author about her process and what she learned about the industry, how she crafted her story. And then we are also going to be speaking to. Author of a memoir who is currently pitching her book to agents and is navigating some of that of the traditional publishing route and so if any of that sounds at all interesting to you These are going to be really great conversations that we have in the next couple of weeks So please subscribe to the channel so you don't miss those subscribe to the newsletter way is going to help you stay connected so that you get to hear these Really interesting conversations and I know there's going to be so much value in them. So thanks for listening this week and we can't wait to have you tune in in our subsequent weeks.

33:40

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. We hope you found inspiration, insights, and connection to yourself as a writer. If you enjoyed this episode, please share, subscribe, and leave us a five star review. Remember, the power of storytelling lies within each of us, and by supporting one another, we can make a difference. We invite you to schedule a coffee chat with us on our website, www. inspiredwritercollective. com. Just like our style here on the podcast, our coffee chats are casual and a way to connect about your writing and discover if book coaching or joining our upcoming writing cohorts for memoir and contemporary romance writing are for you. You can also become a part of our community by connecting with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram and YouTube at Inspired Writer Collective, on TikTok at Inspired Writer LLC. Let's continue this writing journey together. You can find links in the show notes. Until next time, fellow writers, may your pens be mighty and your stories captivating. Happy writing!