Episode 60: [GUEST] Vulnerability & Authenticity Sharing Personal Stories with Angela Dunn Cartledge

This week on the podcast, Elizabeth chats with Angela Dunn Cartledge about connecting with others through our stories. It takes a lot of courage to put your personal story out into the world, and Angela creates a safe space for people to share and find they're not alone. 

Meet Angela: 

Angela Dunn-Cartledge is a working mom of triplets who lives in Knoxville with her family. She has been working as mostly in Finance her entire career but wanted a way to connect and tell her story on a deeper level. She started a podcast called Been There Dunn That in March 2024 and has never looked back. Her goal is to reach the silent sufferers who are grieving and stuck but don’t know where to turn.

Connect with Angela:

Instagram: ​https://www.instagram.com/dunnthatpodcast?igsh=cm1obzB2czdmYzAy&utm_source=qr​

Website: ​https://www.dunnthatpodcast.com/​ 

You don't want to miss hearing Angela's story. You'll be inspired as you listen to her talk about the following and more: 

• the transformative power of giving voice to your story
• how she creates a safe space on her podcast for vulnerability
• what we can learn from connecting with others through shared experiences

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We hope you've found guidance and inspiration for your own writing.

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Transcript

Elizabeth: 0:01

Welcome back listeners to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. I am your co host Elizabeth and today I am joined with Angela Dunn Cartledge. And let me tell you a little bit about Angela. First, when I connected with her, So let's go ahead and get started. Um, so, um, So, again, So, again, Um, So, again, So, again, So, again, So, again, Um, but a little bit more about Angela. She is a working mom of triplets who lives in Knoxville. She primarily works in finance, but wanted to find a way to connect with people and tell her story on a deeper level, hence the start of her podcast. Um, since then, her goal is to been re, is, has been to reach silent sufferers who are grieving and stuck and don't know where to turn. She helps listeners navigate the grief and trauma that may be a part of their stories and find the beauty in that. And so it's because of that, that I felt connected to you, Angela, so much for having me. I love it. Avenue, but you come it from a broader spectrum, not from just the writing, but even just the the sharing of stories. So, I'd love for you to add a little bit more for our audience as to who you are or how you came to into that world and what you hope to, um, I guess create in that space.

Angela: 1:54

Thank you so much. Um, I'm so glad to be here with you again, uh, to be able to talk through all of these wonderful things. Wonderful things that we are doing in the world, but I, uh, I originally wanted to write a book. I got about 75 percent finished with the book and COVID hit. And I really thought that with, um, I was writing my memoir, um, and it was really Uh, thinking that because of the way that I was writing the book, uh, that this could really lend itself more to an episodic podcast kind of storytelling sort of environment. And I could learn from my guests and they could learn from me. And so that was kind of The, the, the initial kickoff. I bought my podcast microphone during the quarantine and then didn't use it for four whole years. So, um, as we talked about, uh, in our previous conversation, but definitely in this one, I had a lot of fear around what my story was going to look like to everybody and what that, uh, would entail. About what I would have to do, the vulnerability that I would need to create in that space to be able to give my story, um, some legs and let it, uh, let it have a life of its own. So that was very hard for me to come to grips with that. And then, uh, once I did it, though, I found that, uh, it was incredibly therapeutic to talk about what that was. I had gone through, but also it was helpful to other people. And so that's the part of this that I think is so wonderful. Um, not just, uh, podcasting in general, but the writing piece of it, that it is so incredibly helpful, not just to the author, but also to the audience.

Elizabeth: 3:49

I love that. So as far as on the been there, done that podcast, does that look like you sharing sort of what would have been individual chapters or individual stories? Like, how does that look as far as the way that you share those stories from your memoir writing and the podcast?

Angela: 4:11

wanted to do the podcast strictly on infertility, um, and the struggles that we had as a family. And what it ended up looking more like was a broader picture of grief and trauma and the things that go along with that. And so, ultimately, I had this idea that it was gonna be really based on the book. More, you know, Chapter based as you just described and and take each chapter and and break them down into episodes where I was the only one talking and then I realized that there are so many people that are that are struggling just like I am and That it makes sense to allow other people to be able to tell their stories too. So basically I take my story and I interweave it in with other, with guests stories as they come onto the show. And it becomes more of a conversation than it is more about me just presenting my piece of the, uh, of the pie. And what I've found about that is like I said earlier, That I'm able to learn so much more about ways, different perspectives or different ways that I can, uh, um, achieve my goals or be able to deal with my emotions in a more healthy way. And then so are the audience able to learn from both of us at the same time. So it really has been a, a, a really, um, powerful, uh, experience to have that, that back and forth and the conversation piece of it. Silence.

Elizabeth: 5:57

edited a million times and, you know, beta read and everything else. You know, I think what what you're saying is reminding me like just really the value of putting it out Even if it's still in a super raw form because there's so much that we glean and our conversations about it with other people That I think can be really helpful and I had no intention of talking about this today, but I just recently wrote um a story for my memoir i'm in the process of doing my rewrites and There was this kind of thought process I went through after my divorce was finalized and it was of the weeks I didn't have of my daughter. She was with my ex and I think because of like the officialness of of the divorce and I'd already had a couple weeks of the kind of co parenting thing to like tie up my loose ends and do some me time and and there

Angela: 6:59

Okay. You

Elizabeth: 7:24

so much better than the people who have lost children like it's not the same even though in that moment what I was journaling about how I was feeling was my gosh, is this how those parents feel?

Angela: 7:38

Okay.

Elizabeth: 7:54

like we can share our stories and we can gain some different perspectives, like as I was writing that this week, I actually found myself. Naturally wanting to pull back from what I was really feeling in that moment because I'm nervous about Sorry, I'm

Angela: 8:11

Of

Elizabeth: 8:31

And I wonder, especially for those people who actually have experienced something like the loss of a child, you know, will they relate to my writing? Will they see that as like overstretching, even if that's the raw feeling that I felt in that moment?

Angela: 8:48

course, and

Elizabeth: 8:49

mm

Angela: 8:50

me the hardest part of the vulnerability of you write a novel and that's wonderful and so amazing and a brilliant p creativity that is now in its own life. But when yo own story, when you're ta you felt that you experie Vulnerability in my opinion, that's a different level of judgment that you're going to receive because now it's personal You could you'll get feedback on a novel and you could take that personally because it was came out of you But that's not the same thing as it being your story that is getting judgment, right? so I see I really do see that that piece of it and I I've said in previous episodes on my show that One of my biggest fears was complacency, that I didn't ever want to be in a place where I felt like I could just be still and be happy right where I was. Um, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't mean to judge that in any way on anybody else's part, but what I've ultimately come to grips with is that my deepest fear is other people's judgment. And that piece holds us back from telling our story that could ultimately change someone's life. Literally.

Elizabeth: 10:15

hmm.

Angela: 10:15

only, only one person has to read that and decide not to go down, um, a path of taking their life. They stay here and they make their, they make their story different. Um, that, that's all I need. That's all I would ever care about would be that my story would change somebody's life, not theirs. Necessarily to that immense level. But what I mean is that there's so much different of a of a level of, um, fear that we feel when it comes to telling our own experiences. And what I really love to tell my guests, and I know I've said this to you too, is that I only want it. safe place. I only want a safe place for those that I speak to. So then I would like to ask for that in return. So when I come and, and, and I'm telling a story of some kind, it doesn't require any kind of feedback. It doesn't require you to have any, um, any ability to judge me on it. But it's gonna happen. There's not really a way to stop that from happening. What we have to do, in my, again, my humble opinion, is that we have to come to grips with the fact that it's a good thing to tell the story, no matter what it does on the other end. Um, I always used to hear people tell me what I would try to write, and I would try to think about publishing, and I'd say, well, what happens if nobody wants to read it? What happens if nobody buys my book? And Everybody that I talked to would say, but you need to be writing for you and then it doesn't matter. And that's while at the time I thought I do want to sell a book. I mean, I do actually want to sell it. So it does matter if they buy it. But ultimately the reason that I'm writing is not because I want to sell a book. The reason I'm writing is because I want to do good in the world that I want my message to actually help people. Okay. Okay.

Elizabeth: 12:26

Yeah, you bring up so many good points in what you just said. Um, like, that whole concept of, who we're writing it for, right? I'm not necessarily writing it for, like, the person who hasn't gone through anything like that. I'm not even writing it for the person who has actually lost a child because that was not my experience. But what I'm writing is the fact that like, I felt this immense grief, you know, and

Angela: 12:55

Um, Okay.

Elizabeth: 13:23

I have her back? Or would this be something that happens every week that I don't have her? And ultimately I found that it got easier, but. no one was really writing to the depth of the emotion that I was feeling. Like when I found the blog posts, everyone was writing with a little bit more perspective of like, Oh, I've been a year into this and yes, it was hard at first. And that's kind of the full, you know, breadth that they gave those initial emotions and then like, and you know, it's still hard. It's never the same again, but I've, I've adjusted. There are things I appreciate about, you know, my time without my kid that make me really value my time with my kid. Okay. And, and that, which is all good to hear, but there was, I could find zero represent, representation of, like, the roller coaster of emotions I was on, and then suddenly I felt this, like, weird drive to another kid, but I, in doing some, like, thinking and processing on it, I could see that it was just because I was holding on to like that piece of my identity that's like was so wrapped up in being a mom and being a caregiver and not knowing what to do with myself and with that energy in those weeks where I didn't have to care for my daughter. And since no one was writing about that, then it makes it feel even more important to share that story

Angela: 14:44

Exactly.

Elizabeth: 14:46

little out there for people support wise.

Angela: 14:49

so agree with that. And I, I, the two things that I heard you say are number one, that There isn't, there wasn't any acute, the acute pain, the first, um, that, that, that desperate pain that you first feel. We tend not to share in those moments. You said so yourself, you felt isolated by it. And we tend not to share in those moments. That's the stuff that people need the most. And what's so crazy about it is that when I first decided I was going to do the podcast, you know, all those years ago, I like, I'm going to talk about infertility, but I'm going to talk about the fact that I've gotten through it.

Elizabeth: 15:33

Mm

Angela: 15:33

And what people need to hear is that acute desperation. They need to know

Elizabeth: 15:40

hm.

Angela: 15:41

feeling that you are bringing to the table is off the table. There's nothing that you can say that I haven't felt before. There's nothing that you can say that would offend me. There's nothing you could say that would, uh, uh, upset my apple cart in a way that would make me think, um, that I was wrong. That's not how I want that to work. I wanted our conversations to be open and safe for both of us. But also what I loved that you said was that you could see then the solution. That there was, there's a way to get there. And your journaling prompts are so amazing because it gives you the chance to see that raw emotion again, and to go, to dig back into it. That I did the same thing though, when I've lost our son, somebody said, I think it was actually a therapist that said, you should join a support group for parents that have lost children. And I said, no, no, no, I don't want to be in a group with people that are in it right now. Um, I want to be with people that are through it. That's the complete opposite of what you said. I mean is it you wanted camaraderie you wanted community you wanted fellowship in the in the raw part of it and I was thinking Let's get through the raw part as fast as we possibly can, you know So then you have this dichotomy that happens in people too where we're telling each other. Aren't you over that yet? Aren't you okay? And you, your example was perfect. You should have thought about that before blank, blank, blank. Before you blank, blank, blank. You know, that's not how life works. I hate to break it to you.

Elizabeth: 17:30

ha ha.

Angela: 17:31

to make all the decisions and control all of that. So I'm happy that you got to do that though. stranger that is giving your advice, but I was not able to do that. I was not able to have foresight and psychic abilities. So I was not able to keep that from happening. And that's what I think is the beauty of humanity is that we can go to each other and say, um, I need help, but we need to give it without judgment. And that's a totally, that's a whole another episode.

Elizabeth: 18:03

Right. And that just makes me

Angela: 18:07

a, a, a, a, a, a.

Elizabeth: 18:26

still, by the end of the memoir, you've usually come around to some sort of solution, resolution, growth, insight, and I, I think that's what makes memoir as a genre so great, and, you know, especially when it's well written memoir that it allows you to go into that place with someone in someone's story, but it doesn't leave you hanging there, it doesn't leave you, like, with this gaping wound of empathy, and and in pain, but it, it then shows you that there is a way through it as well, at whatever speed feels, you know, appropriate. Right.

Angela: 19:11

And that's, I like that too about memoirs because it. I, I love understanding other people and their decision process and how they worked through something. Um, ultimately the resilience of the process, right? And I love that concept, but I also am a huge proponent of happy endings. So I'm, I'm all in for reading a memoir no matter what the ending is, but I am all about being able to understand you're, you feel better, not, you're not, uh, back to the way you were before. You know, you're not, you're not going to be able to undo that experience. To your example, you can't undo the pain that you feel when she's not there, because if you did that, she wouldn't have been there ever. And so that's not something you're willing to undo. So it's that, it's that ebb and flow that I think is the, is so important about our stories, that we, we have to have both. In order to have the grief, we have to have love to start with. In order to ease the grief, we have to forgive. There's, there's always this ebb and flow of emotion that's happening at the same time.

Elizabeth: 20:35

I love that. What is your intention with your memoir? Or is the podcast now take the place of the publishing of the memoir, so to speak, or do you still have intention of finishing it in a written published form?

Angela: 20:49

I have full intention of finishing it in a written published form. Um, I really want to be able to focus on it a little bit more. So, um, I changed the way I did my podcast from first season to second season. And so I know I'm going to have more More open time slots, I guess, if that makes sense. And that is, it is my goal to have it completed, completed, written on my side of the equation, uh, by the end of this calendar year. And that makes me, uh, accountable because now Elizabeth has heard it, but also so has the audience. And so I'm, I'm ready to, I'm ready to complete the story, but obviously. My story will continue past here, but I want to tell that portion of it and be able to help others that are in similar situations. I mean, the fact that you so amazingly love your, your port, your story that you just told a few minutes ago about writing that. Extra story to rewrite, uh, into the book because it is so powerful what we do to ourselves in those moments where we say, yeah, but, um, I, it can't be as bad as losing a child. It's all hard, all of it, all, everything we do in life is hard. Um, it's just a matter of us giving ourselves the grace to experience it fully. Um, and I always like to say too, that the best way through is straight through. If you try to tamp it down or stick it down in a box and you try to not follow through you're going to end up in a place that you don't want to be. Um, that story's going to come out. Whether you want it to or not, it needs to be told. The world needs to know who you are and what you, uh, what you bring to the world and what you have experienced. So it's just, it's all wonderful, important stuff. And I, I specifically love the storytelling piece and how important that is. Okay.

Elizabeth: 23:24

day on like caliber or level, it doesn't matter because to us in it, it is still the hardest day we've had. Right. And so for me, that is probably the like deepest. feeling of grief that I have experienced because I haven't lost a parent yet. I haven't lost a sibling. I have, you know, so at this point, or at least at that point when I was living that day in my life, like that was the

Angela: 23:51

very much.

Elizabeth: 24:03

it was the hardest thing that you'd gone through at that point. And that will probably change, unfortunately, as we go through life. We will have other, you know, things that become the new hardest thing that we've done. Um, but yes, there is so much beauty, I think, and like, just enrichment of the human experience when we get to read the stories of people surviving their hardest day. Because then it reminds us that we, too, can survive our hardest days.

Angela: 24:35

Absolutely. And what I, what I see in that is Um, that that common emotion, whether it be the same circumstances or the same exact situation, that doesn't matter. It's how we can connect on that deeper emotional soul level. And that to me is community at its finest. I wouldn't know you if it weren't for the interwebs. You know, I wouldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation because we don't live in the same city, but we also wouldn't have even connected to each other. So, to me, the idea of putting our story out there and being able for, again, for it to have a life of its own for it to be able to be in someone else's hand and for them to experience the story and them to process the story is. Completely, um, life giving, not just to me, but also, obviously, to them, too, if they learn from it, or if they can see a commonality in the story. I just, I think that's the most important thing that we can offer each other is similarity in whatever that looks like.

Elizabeth: 25:52

And the beauty of it, too, that I reflect on in the story is that then, like, a day later or the next evening, I was waking up in the middle of the night and I was thinking back to all of those families at the border who were being ripped from their children, right? And so, even in that moment, in my grief, I was able to have deeper empathy than I've ever been able to muster for people who have gone through that. that type of grief of separation of parent from child and what in the various forms that those could take. So even in my own grief, I felt a deeper connection to others who may be grieving a similar circumstance.

Angela: 26:37

It's about empathy, right? I mean, that then creates, um, that, that commonality or that, that string that we can then have an empty soup can on either end and be able to talk to each other and try to meet in the middle. And it doesn't, to me. Life creates that. It's not just about parenting, but parenting is a definitely a commonality. It doesn't matter what we look like or what country we came from or what English, what language we speak. I go and say what English we speak. What language we speak. Yes, that too. That, that it doesn't matter about any of those things because that's a common thing across humanity, just like emotion is. And what I love about that is that Every, just in, just in your example, you can relate to someone that is trying to get into this country to just be here for the good that they understand it to be. And we that live here are thinking, this place is crazy right now. But. Again, it's all about perspective and joining all of those ideas together. And by creating that common perspective, even if we aren't in exactly the same circumstances, we can still help each other and we can still understand each other. It's really, really a brilliant way, uh, to get To get our, to connect to somebody else by, by just putting ourselves on the line and saying, yeah, but I had some really bad moments in my story, but I'm willing to share them because if you also are feeling those moments, if you're also suffering in silence, if you're also isolating as a result of it, you're, you're not as alone as you think you are. Um, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 28:49

sides. Or even, like, the things where you know you won't be faulted, even if they're negative, right? Like, you don't, you want to be without blame, we always want to paint ourselves, you know. In a likable way, but there's also some beauty in showing all the messy parts too That at least for me when i'm reading someone else's story seeing that human element Just makes me trust so much more of what they are saying. It adds that that level of authenticity of like Oh, I know you didn't really want to share that and you also knew that it would have an impact On how I would receive your story And you chose to do that and now I can see you as more full bodied human versus this two dimensional, you know, singular aspect. Because, honestly, when we write memoirs, we are not including every aspect of our lives. We're not including every event that happened, all of these details, every emotion. We're, choosing particular ones because of the narrative story and growth that we're trying to show.

Angela: 29:52

Yeah.

Elizabeth: 29:52

I think there's, it's great when I can see someone choosing some stories that don't always work. Put themselves in the best light because then it allows me to exist in not always the best light all the time

Angela: 30:07

Right, and you can then, then you have a little bit more confidence to share your, uh, nasty pieces or your, you know, the not so cleaned up pieces that you want to share. And I, I just think that's so. It's so important, especially now in, in our world, not just in our country, but in our world where we're all struggling with mental health and with the side effects of being isolated for almost two full years, that, that all of those things are coming to light in our world right now, and we are, uh, we're struggling with what to do in its place. And I Particularly love what you said in that the way to do that is connection and the way to do that is vulnerability and the way to do that is authenticity. And the only way to do that is to tell our story is to talk about ourselves and say, I think you can. I think I can help you. I think I can be a common thread for you so that you can not feel so alone. It's really critical. I agree. the uh so

Elizabeth: 31:34

just this feeling, at least that I've felt in this person's presence, of like, I know that I can show up as my full spectrum because they're not judging themselves, so they are not going to be judging me. They fully accepted who they are and don't, you know, hide it. They don't, you know, cloak it. They don't, you know, I don't know, do the smoke and mirrors or anything around it.

Angela: 32:02

Okay. You

Elizabeth: 32:32

in, in authorship and in writing that we accept all the ways that people choose to show up. Whether that's you write a little bit and then you don't for 10 years, or you're someone who sits and does something every day, or

Angela: 32:46

Um,

Elizabeth: 33:03

a similar space on your podcast as well.

Angela: 33:07

That is that is the whole goal for me because I feel like we, We hold our stories in for so long that we are afraid to let them out. And then. There's all this fear around, you know, all the pieces that we've already talked about, around letting it out. But the hardest time, the hardest moment of telling your story is the first time that you tell it. Every time after that, it gets easier and it gets, More full and more emotional. And there's more. It just it's almost like it puts leaves on the tree. Um, and you don't just have branches anymore. Now you have a full tree to talk from and that's to me the whole goal of my space as well is to give people the opportunity to say, Yeah, it was pretty ugly there for a couple of years. And let me tell you why. And let me tell you how and let that be. As cathartic as possible, even if they told their story 100 times, let that be as cathartic as possible for them to tell it again and to be able to reach the audience in the way that they want to. So it is, it's, it is very, I keep saying life giving, but I can't help it. That is, it is truly, um, So fulfilling to be able to allow stories to get out into the world to be able to change people's lives. Um,

Elizabeth: 34:59

this week. So I feel so honored to have been able to share it with you and for you to have received it and mirrored it back to me in such an accepting and loving way. And I hope listeners will tune into your podcast because we are all tapping into grief and trauma, whether we're writing fiction or nonfiction, you know, it has its way of working in. It's, it's part of our self expression. Um, so we will have the links to your Instagram as well

Angela: 35:30

Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 35:45

that airs, we will update this show description so that there will be a link to that one as well. Um, but Angela, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Angela: 35:55

you for having me. It was a joy and such a blessing, uh, just to be able to have another conversation with you. So I'm super excited and thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Elizabeth: 36:07

Alright everyone, happy writing!