Episode 64: Finding Your Creative Flow

In this week's episode, we reflect on our process of getting in the creative flow. 

Here's some of what we touch upon:

1. The Science of Flow: We reference research in positive psychology about flow by professor, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi who wrote a book called "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience"
2. Identifying Resistance: Elizabeth emphasizes that recognizing when you're not in flow provides valuable information about your writing process. She shares her experience with her memoir, where resistance indicated she needed to restructure her outline.
3. Creating Flow Conditions: We discuss several strategies for establishing flow: 
   • Community accountability: Writing sessions over Zoom 
   • Environment: From coffee shops to a dedicated office space
   • Physical movement: Exercise and walks help prepare the mind for writing
   • And more...
4. Working with Coaches: We talk about our work as book coaches (Elizabeth for memoir, Stephanie for romance) and emphasize the value of professional guidance, comparing it to how athletes use coaches to improve.

There's a lot packed into this episode and we're excited to share it with you. We hope you find guidance and inspiration for your own writing, or whatever your creative journey might be, from what we've shared. 

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Transcript

Elizabeth: 0:00

Welcome to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie book coaches who help you finish your book. Tune in each week as we dig into the writing process, including reaching your goals and silencing your inner critic. You'll learn how to deepen your characters, hone your authentic storytelling style, and strengthen your writing muscles by exploring books in and out of your own genre. You'll also hear from published authors, industry experts, and marketing specialists who will give you tools to navigate this. Self-publishing landscape. We are here to provide the support and accountability you need throughout the marathon of writing so you stop running in place, editing the same chapter over and over, and find the confidence to move forward. Get your copy of a curated list of four essential craft books to assist your memoir writing or a character coffee chat for fiction writers through the links in the show notes, let's bring your book to life together.

Stephanie: 0:57

Hello, listener and welcome to another episode of the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. I'm here with Elizabeth and we are excited to talk today about the creative flow. Yesterday we were reflecting on our own experiences with. You know, taking the time to hop online with each other and have our Zoom writing sessions and just the value of having that time as part of creating flow for us. And for those of you who may not be familiar, there is actually scientific research behind this. Um, in the field of positive psychology, there's a professor who is at Claremont Graduate University. His name is. I will put the name and link in the show notes because the way I pronounced it is definitely not the way you spell it. And so it's uh, but anyways, he's very interesting. I read his book flow back when I was getting my PhD in educational leadership and so it's really cool to think about things that we talk about as writers that are. There is science behind it. There is something about getting in that flow state that helps us move forward. So that's where we are today. So, um, Elizabeth, why don't you hop in and tell about, you know, your experience with creative Flow.

Elizabeth: 2:30

You know the thing, the place I see it the most and learn from it the most are the times I know that I'm not in flow, and how that gives me information about my writing process or what I'm actually writing. Or maybe that I need to do more research or I'm not landing on the thing that I'm trying to land on when I feel that resistance. And I know that was a theme that came up both in your numerous iterations of the book that you're working on, and that is where I landed last year. Early last year when I realized like something was just not working with my memoir outline. And it took me a little while to figure out what exactly that was. And it actually required me to go through my own memoir course. So as I was running the first round of the memoir course, the, the small group program that I have that helps people formulate their core message and then create a detailed outline for their memoir. Through those materials, I realized I was taking too long to get to the inciting incident of my book, the Real Heart of the Story, which is such a common thing that we as writers feel like our reader needs. Way more backstory than we, they actually need, or we start our writing process where we think it's gonna start, but you end up doing so much discovery writing, that is important to do. It's, it helps you as the writer figure out your story and where it's gonna go, but so much of that the reader does not need. So it ends up, you know, ultimately getting cut. And that was my experience. And totally revamping the outline of my memoir the way that I knew I had landed on the right thing was that like release of resistance around writing it. So up until that point, I was like really dragging my feet about getting back into the manuscript and adding, or making the couple of adjustments or changes or edits that I knew I needed to do. It was really only after, after that big overhaul that I then felt that creative flow come back again. That urgency, that desire to sit back down with that, that new outline with the manuscript, because the message just got so much clearer as I landed on the right path to walk. So I guess for me, the biggest takeaway with. Finding flow is the times you're not finding it and what that might mean to either changing you're writing or where you're writing or when you're writing something about your process, um, in order to get back into that stream again. I.

Stephanie: 5:25

Well, I love what you say about. When you found the creative flow that it was that point of releasing resistance. And I, I mean, and that's very much true for me. I mean, I was sharing with you yesterday that I've reached the point with my manuscript finally where when I hop in, I. I just read the last sentence and I'm automatically in that state where I'm back in with my characters and I just start typing. And I've been in a place where I'm like, I have to keep moving forward. I'm not gonna go back to what's before. And that's also helped me with. My flow is that I'm focusing on moving forward. But I think you raise a really good point about being very purposeful about identifying what are my points of re resistance? What are the pieces that are getting in the way of my ability to find that flow state because. If you are a writing writer and have been writing for a long time, you recognize when you reach the point where you can just write without criticizing yourself, without stopping, without correcting yourself at every turn, that you just allow the ideas to come on the page. And then you of course are gonna go back later. We all do time and time again. And, um, but I think being very aware of what is getting in your way, whether it's your thoughts, whether it's where are you writing, when are you writing? I mean, there's so many potential variables that. Uh, can get in the way. I mean, I know we're all familiar, you know, if you've been online enough where there are definitely memes about, you know, well I cleaned my house today. Um, you know, when really writing should have been getting done, and all those different components that can get in the way of our flow. And I know for me it can be, you know, those little things where. I need to go to a coffee shop because if I'm at home, I am thinking about all the things that need to get done around the house, and I think like, oh, I need to do laundry. Oh wait, that's not clean. Oh, that needs to be tidied. And then all of a sudden I'm in, you know, this state of organizing things when in fact I need to, you know. Put my butt in the chair and be like, no, this is your writing time. And that's why it's been so helpful for us to schedule our writing times where it's like, Hey, can you write today? Sure. Okay. What time? Let's hop on Zoom. And we write, because there's something about that time where even though you and I turn off our mics and turn off our camera, I'm like. Elizabeth is there on the other side of that dark screen and she's writing, and so I'm gonna write and, and there's just something very natural about that accountability piece as humans, like it's helpful to know like somebody else is doing this at the same time as I am.

Elizabeth: 8:41

Right. I mean, yesterday I was really struggling. Now, listeners who have been here for the last couple episodes at least know that I've been doing a big push to getting all the stories that I needed to add to my newly revamped outline. Done because I was coming up on essentially a year since I had, you know, cut almost 30,000 words and knew I needed to add a whole bunch of new stuff. I essentially shifted the like timeline that my memoir covers, which is why I needed to do such a drastic overhaul and add so many new stories. I think at one point I counted 21 new stories, but I found some more along the way that I needed to add. So it was probably closer to like 25, um, scenes that I had to, to write and. Yesterday was kind of my deadline of getting those written because I'm trying to use my spring break week in order to do a full read through, and so I do have the full manuscript printed out next to me. It's right now double spaced. 290 pages, which is wild. Um, but I knew I had to sit down yesterday and I was, I was dreading it. I knew it was gonna be a long writing day because of what I still had to accomplish. And so, you know, I reached out to you. We scheduled a time, there was some confusion with the scheduled time, and honestly, it worked in my favor because what you just said, Stephanie. Like, I still anticipated that you were gonna be there, that at some point I was gonna get a text from you of like, oh, here's the link. Something came up real quick. I'm hopping on now. Whatever. It didn't matter that it was an hour later because of our miscommunication. I even knowing that I was going to be writing with you. Made me sit down in the chair and actually that first hour I needed to just read through my journals of that time period that I was gonna be writing on and do a more detailed outline and separate out a couple of the subplots that were all kind of happening at the same timeframe. Um, and this was, this is the last chapter of the book. So it's, it's, you know, doing a lot of heavy lifting. I've gotta wrap up a lot of plot points and everything, and actually having that hour. Was perfect, but I know that I would not have scheduled a time with you and been like, oh, I'm gonna sit down an hour earlier to get started. No, I would've waited until whatever time you were gonna join me, so it really just worked out in my favor to think you were gonna join me at one time and have you join me an hour later.

Stephanie: 11:05

Well, and again it goes back to, you know, in early episodes of this podcast and so much part of our vision of creating the collective. Is the idea of community and creating those connections with other writers and listener. If you don't have an accountability partner or you don't have a community, we definitely encourage you to seek out. Resources in your local community or online or however you can find a way to connect with other writers. And I know that there's so many different ways that they're, they're structured, but it helps so much for getting in that creative flow because there's something about that connectedness to another person. That at least for me, really breaks down my walls around my own, you know, inner critic that's saying, well, I don't know if you can really, you know, write this fiction book because you've never done that before. Or, I don't know if this is, you know, what you're meant to be writing. And I go, oh no. Okay. You know, quiet. I mean, just. Stop talking inner critic because I am here to write this story. And when I'm in that place and we're writing together, it just creates more flow. Not that I can't create that in other time, in other spaces. And that's, you know, what we brought up before is, you know, not only do you have to identify your points of resistance, but what are the times? Identify the times when you are in flow. So one of those, as we've talked about, is community. Well, the other one for me I know is being at a coffee shop, there's something about the ambient noise. I, I'm able to block out a lot of the distraction because a coffee shop has always been my go-to whatever project I'm working on, you know, ever since like. High school and college. It's always been my go-to, so I know that for myself, it's like, no, you need to get your laptop, leave the house and go sit somewhere. And it doesn't even have to be a specific time of day. You know, just whatever time of day fits on, you know, at a given time. But just knowing like those two pieces, you know, getting on Zoom with you and then also going to a coffee shop, and I'm sure there are others that I could identify as well, and they may come up as we're talking here. Um, but what, what are some of your, you know, go to places where you know you're gonna get in your creative flow.

Elizabeth: 13:55

Yeah, I had one comment about your, your ambient noise and blocking that out. I wonder if you've tricked your brain that in blocking out those. True external voices, you've also blocked that internal critic voice that you hear as separate from you. You know? So it's like in your brain kind of shutting down everything outside of just you writing. It almost like tricks your brain into shutting down that critic. It was just a thought I

Stephanie: 14:23

That's a,

Elizabeth: 14:23

talking.

Stephanie: 14:24

that's such a cool thought. I hadn't even thought about that, but I love that.

Elizabeth: 14:29

Um, and then for me, I. I do a lot of great work here in my office at the house, and I use one of the principles that I learned back in college. It was something my mom told me before I went off to college. She said, don't do your homework on your bed. You know, like you're gonna be living in a tiny dorm room, but have a place in your room that you do your, like thinking your schoolwork where your brain is turned on, but allow your bed to be the place of like. Relaxation and where you let yourself shut off, it was challenging even in my former rental where my. I had a desk. I had this desk set up, but it was in the living room, right? It wasn't like a designated space. There's something really special about coming into a space that's only for particular purposes that I know there's all sorts of science around how that helps your brain get ready for the activity that you're about to do in that. Place like exercise, that's a big one. Like you may dread going to the gym, but once you put your body in that place, it knows what it's supposed to do. That's what I've done with my writing by having a designated space. And yes, I use the space for podcasting too, but all of it is, is centered around writing. Otherwise, this is just a, you know, an empty guest room and. Essentially writing and podcasting are the only things that I use this space for. So when I come in here, I'm, I'm ready to go. Um, the other one for me that is helpful is movement and exercise. So if I'm not, whatever reason, if stepping into the office does not naturally get me into that flow space, then sometimes that's an indicator to me. That I need to get out and move my body first. So go for a walk, go for a run, go stretch, whatever, do a quick, you know, yoga series or something. Um, and then a lot of times after I move my body, I'm ready to sit in the chair. It's just that resistance of having to sit. And even yesterday when I was doing such long writing times, I took breaks in between. And after my first session of three hours, I went outside for a run. So being in nature, being outside, getting some sunshine, and also moving my body to that degree helped me prepare for the next, you know, three hours that I needed to sit down and continue writing. So movement of my body is probably another big piece of. I can tap into flow if I'm not already naturally there and sitting in this space.

Stephanie: 17:10

Well, and that's definitely one of the recommendations. I know listener, if you're familiar with the Artist's Way by Julia Cameron, that she talks about movement. And of course there's so much around that too. And I. I agree with you. I mean, movement helps for me too, and I know, you know, we've talked in the past about how sometimes when we've been out walking that we, you know, record little, you know, voice memos to ourselves of ideas that come up. And that can be very helpful because sometimes, you know, if you like to walk and talk, that can be a good way to get into that creative flow space. Um, another piece that came to mind, of course, in connection with. And her encouraging you to walk is also, she encourages what are called artist dates, where you set a time for yourself during the week where you do something special for just you, and that by doing that it can help, you know, you step out of your writing for a little bit. But at the same time, interestingly enough, it helps you come back to it because you've done something for yourself. That's an aspect of self care. Um, and that can really like put the brain in a space of. Allowing you to be calmer, uh, be more focused. Come back to your work with a positive mindset. Uh, you know, as we know as writers, there's so much around mindset and how you feel about your writing and how you feel about yourself and the things you tell yourself. And when you do, you know, movement of course helps shift that. Um, movement also helps if you've been working on your writing. It helps to get your mind to kind of process everything and shape it, and then you. To your manuscript, again, with a fresh view. Um, and so that's also a really powerful aspect of getting some movement, but thinking about, again, you know, what, what works for you. We're certainly sharing, you know, things that work for us, but, you know, listener, we'd love to hear from you and have you share, you know, some ideas of what works for you to get you in the. Creative flow space. You can, if you're watching this on YouTube, please comment below. If you're listening on, you know, a podcast app, you know, send us a text. We do actually get those texts. Um, even if we can't respond to you, we will respond to you on our next episode. If you've been listening, you know, we've done some shout outs, so just encouraging you to engage with us in this conversation. We love when we have opportunities to do that. Um, but yeah,'cause this thinking about how you get in the creative flow is such an important part of really honing in on what works for you as a writer. So you can. You know, repeat the steps every time and, you know, write more, show up for yourself more. All the things that you know, really lend themselves to creating a positive experience for you.

Elizabeth: 20:26

It's so true, Stephanie, and it's interesting to me how I went from like when I wasn't working a part-time job on top of writing, when I had the time to write. You know, more, had such a process for getting into the flow, right? I, I would sit down, I would usually do some journaling. I might pull some tarot cards. Um, I really love Rick Rubin's book, the Creative Act, a Way of being. This is a book that has really short snippets, so I would, you know, I've been slowly. halfway through. I've been slowly just when I needed some inspiration, pick it up, see where I left off. Um, there's tons of great things in here about self-doubt, about the creative process, and this was something that I used I had more writing time to help me get into the flow. So sometimes seeking some of that external motivation can be helpful as well. Um. Yeah, I, I don't know. I don't know what else to say about, about flow and it, it can be pretty elusive and it can be really frustrating you feel like you're just not landing on it. So if you've tried, you know, say changing your environment and you've tried, implementing some motivation tools or some movement, and that's still not getting you there. really just might be something with what you're writing, whether there's, it's triggering you in some way that you haven't necessarily come to terms with yet or are like consciously aware of and therefore you're, you're feeling some resistance to it. Or if it's just simply you've kind of gone in the wrong direction with a character, with your outline. In my case, um. It, it may be worth taking a, a closer look if you've tried all those external kind of environmental factors, it possibly could be something in your writing that is trying to tell you that it's not quite right. And that's really the best way to tell you is, is to, to feel that resistance and to struggle with where that's coming from and do that deep dive to see. Why it's not landing, you know, is it, is it some judgment you have about yourself? Like maybe you feel weak in writing dialogue and therefore you need to go find some external resources lessons or a masterclass on screenwriting, which would have a lot of great, you know, techniques for writing dialogue. Like maybe it's just a, a skill you are missing that you need to add. But if, if you've changed, if you've adjusted all those environmental factors, then unfortunately it may just be something like with the writing, not going quite right.

Stephanie: 23:26

Well, and the other piece that comes to mind along with that is to also consider working with a coach. And both Elizabeth and I are book coaches. Um, Elizabeth focuses on memoir. I focus on writing romance. There are coaches out there in. A variety of genres that you can seek out for support because sometimes it's helpful to have someone who essentially holds your hand every step of the way and can help you work through the barriers. Like Elizabeth said, it could very well be what you're writing. I certainly face that with my manuscript. I had two going and I was in ya. I was in adult in adult romance, and I've gone back to my YA route because I all of a sudden hit a point where I was very clear on where the story was going, who my characters were, what the arcs were, all of the components that needed to make the story move forward. And. I have a coach myself, and so there's a lot of value in having, you know, a book coach who can help you. And so if that's something that interests you. We'd love to connect with you about that. Um, so just know that that's another place that you can go. I know not everybody's familiar with that as part of their process, but as Elizabeth and I were talking the other day, you know, we were talking about, uh, athletes and. Athletes have coaches to get to the next level. And if you wanna get to the next level, it only makes sense that you start to build a team. I know I went to a workshop last year at a WP and that was one of the things that, one of the panels who were all, you know, people who had published with indie publishers said like they needed a team around them to get it done, that they couldn't have gotten it done. If they had tried to do it alone. So that's also why we're here with our podcast, is we want you to know you're not alone. You know, we're here to support you. If the podcast helps you, wonderful. We love, we love that, but we also want you to know that there are other ways that we can support you.

Elizabeth: 25:45

For sure, and especially with something like memoir, gosh, you just get so close to the subject matter because you're writing about your own experiences and your own life, and it can be really difficult to have. That level of objectification with your own writing in that genre. Um, I, I think that's one of the biggest pieces that participants reflect on and when they go through the memoir program, that in just hearing them describe their story in. Me watching what things they really light up about. Like I reflect that back to them and I'll say, when you talked about this, there was like an extra lift in your voice. Tell me more about that. What was that like for you? That sounds like something that might actually have some legs, you know? That sounds like a concept, a theme say for your memoir, that that may be able to be that backbone structure, that core message that runs throughout the entire manuscript and when. So often when you're in it, you can't see that. Even me even writing my memoir, I mean, there's a reason why this is the third full draft that I've written. It did not start with this message. It did not start with this level of depth. It was a process for me. And you go through that process like I did kind of by yourself or with intermittent help, an editor here, a writing group there. And it might take you, you know, the two and a half years like it's taken me, or you might be able to find resources that work for you, what, what you need in the moment. And you might be able to skip over some of those more painful steps of writing drafts that aren't gonna get you, you know, where you're, where you're trying to go. So, um, Stephanie, I think that's wise to, to point out, you know. How we don't, we don't judge athletes for needing help or seeking help. Like they would be crappy. Like that would just, they would not be the elite athletes. They are, and they would almost sound conceited if like Tiger Woods didn't have a coach or you know, some famous basketball player didn't have their, you know, fitness coach and their shooting coach and their, I don't know, I don't know sports super well, but you know, all the different facets and. not trying to say that we are the end all, be all, like we're gonna be able to do all the steps of everything with you. What we're saying is we are here to be your cheerleaders. We know how to do these particular things that, that Stephanie has said, the the romance fiction for her, the memoir, finding that core message, that unifying theme, and doing a detailed outline so that you sit down to write. Like me, you can just simply refer to what that detailed outline is and you can get those words on the page. Having that detailed outline is the only way that I got through those 25 scenes in the three months that I've been working on them with just the single hour here. After work, the single hour there, a couple hours on the weekend. If I did not have that outline, I would not be done. So thank you, listener. And hope that you are able to find your flow and that you know that when you get out of flow, not the end of the world. You'll find it again.

29:22

Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. We hope you found inspiration, valuable tips, and connection to yourself as a writer. Thank you for sharing this episode with your writing friends and leaving us a review. The power of storytelling lies within each of us, and by supporting one another, we can amplify our voices and craft narratives that resonate with our audience. We're not just about words on a page. We're passionate about the craft, the process in building a supportive community. Become a part of our community by connecting with us using the links in the show description or join our weekly email newsletter for updates and a dose of inspiration straight to your inbox.