Inspired Writer Collective Podcast

Episode 79: [Jillian Forsberg] Writing Historical Fiction to Tell Important Stories

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Elizabeth chats with author, Jillian Forsberg, about her writing life, what inspired her to write her recent novel "Rhino Keeper," and the importance of telling stories that matter. You'll learn about what helps Jillian stay focused on her goals and how she approaches her writing life. This episode is packed full of inspiration to remind you about the importance of telling your story or telling a story you feel needs to be told.

For listeners of this episode, Jillian is offering you a hardcover copy of her books when you mention you heard her here. This offer is for listeners in the US and Canada only. This episode mentions Rhino Keeper by Jillian Forsberg.

Jillian Forsberg is a historical fiction author, mother, pet owner, and bridal store owner. She has a masters degree in public history and her stories focus on little known peoples and historic animals. She lives in Wichita, Kansas.

Books and Resources mentioned in this episode:

Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks
Marvelous by Molly Greeley
The Moth: The Art and Craft of Storytelling 

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Elizabeth:

If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you know we are big on exploring personal narrative and supporting writers and sharing their stories. Do you have stacks of journals or old notes pushed to the back of a drawer? Have you attempted to write about meaningful life experiences but gotten stuck? Have you thought about leaving a legacy through writing a memoir? Your voice deserves to be heard, and others will benefit from reading about the lessons you've learned. If you're a busy mom or a career woman, life is already full. And finding time and energy to write feels impossible. You have passion stories burning inside, but there's a gap. You might know what you want to say, but figuring out how to craft it into a compelling memoir feels overwhelming. Maybe you've tried to start, but you're stuck. Some experiences are clear, but turning those into a cohesive narrative, that's a challenge. Plus you don't have hours to read countless craft books or sift through DIY courses that leave you feeling unsupported and unsure. That's where the memoir master plan cohort comes in. Designed specifically for a busy woman like you who wants to make meaningful progress efficiently and effectively. We will guide you through the writing process, help you turn your ideas into powerful stories, and give you the tools and support you need to finally bring your memoir to life. Enrollment launches in August, and meetings run for six weeks in September and October. As fall approaches the perfect season to reflect and create, now's the time to shift from dreaming to doing. Don't let the season slip away without making headway on your writing goals. Fill out the interest form in the show notes to join our memoir master plan cohort, and turn your stories into a legacy, your voice, your journey shared with the world. Take the first step today and start writing the memoir. Only you can tell. Welcome back listeners to another episode of the Inspired Writer Collective. I'm your host, Elizabeth, and I'm so excited to introduce you to Jillian Forsberg. She is a historical fiction writer, also a mom, a dog owner. She owns a bridal shop, so she is a busy woman, but she has. Successfully published her debut, um, book, which is the Rhino Keeper, again, historical fiction. So we're gonna be talking to you today, Jillian, about what that process was like. Um, one of the things I really resonated with you on is the way that you have such a passion for giving a voice to little known people and characters throughout history, because that's the premise that Stephanie and I have operated under. In regards to adding guests to our podcast, we feel like it's important to provide a platform, even for those who haven't made it big. And I think your story, especially of your publishing journey, will be really helpful for others to hear and understand that there are ways to get published without agents, and there's a number of different avenues that you can take to getting your work out there. So welcome to the podcast.

Jillian Forsberg:

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I've been looking forward to this for weeks now, and I feel like what you do on your podcast, it also really resonates with me. And I think exactly what you said, like we talk about these smaller moments in history or people who weren't royal or weren't famous, and I often find connection with them because

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

Right. Um, and so you're right. When I, uh, first started writing the Rhino Keeper, I was like, this is so interesting. I just need this main character to have left behind some kind of a journal or to have like a record in a court somewhere. And then I realized something that was really kind of sad, that most common people in history, um, if they did not leave behind something tangible that lasted. We'll literally forget them because there's no one to completely tell their story again. So doing things like this podcast, I think are not just important for, you know, getting the word out about books and memoir and historical fiction and things like that. But it's also super important because we want people to remember that even if you didn't sell a hundred thousand copies of your debut novel, you still have something to say. Um. And that's pretty much what I felt like with the Rhino Keeper the whole time, even though the main character literally left behind no journal. And let me tell you, if I owned the only rhino on the continent of Europe. I wanna write a journal like every day. Like this is what she did today, right? No, the man left nothing. I have like one signature of his that I definitely have saved to my phone and my favorites album. And, um, I, I feel like there are things that he did that I have record of from the royal courts, from art, things like that, that do make it remarkable. But he was still common. think that's like an allegory for everything we do. Even though people are common, it doesn't mean they didn't do important things.

Elizabeth:

Or, or even like, certainly in that case, important things, but in the bigger scheme of things. Relatable things, right? Like you just said, you relate more to these kind of characters than to the royalty or to the, you know, people that had notoriety or some sort of famous aspect to, to their story. And I mean that I instantly just go to like, yeah, this is why we journal. This is why if you have a story you wanna share, you, you publish that memoir. You know, like this is, this is your legacy. You're leaving behind when you're no longer here to tell your story. How is your story gonna be told? Luckily, some people in history have you to tell their story.

Jillian Forsberg:

Yes, and I think about that all the time, like how do we know what happened in the past with common people? And the answer is often newspapers. So if you make the news amazing, but a lot of people back then made the news in. Scarier bad ways. Um, religious books. So like those family bibles are so important.

Elizabeth:

Hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

And I love looking back at those from my own family. Um, but one of the other big things that I was just thinking about lately was oral history and how, um, you know, we hear these stories from our grandparents and our mothers and they hear them from their mothers and their grandparents, and that that line goes on and on and on. But who's going to remember to write that down? Who's gonna think? This is a story my grandpa used to tell me all the time that happened to him and now he's gone. Will you tell your child about that? And then how will it get distorted over time? So the memoir, the journal, the photographs, the, the daily documentation of basic things I think is so important. One of the things that I did in early motherhood, and I can't believe I had the brain to do this, um. I had a journal given to me by my aunt, and my aunt told me that I should write something every day about my child,

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

for five years.

Elizabeth:

You stuck with it longer than I did. I had a calendar

Jillian Forsberg:

yes.

Elizabeth:

was to mainly write the firsts, like all the firsts that were happening.'cause there's so many, especially in the first like year or two, and I think I did about two years, but like I would note like. So and so came to visit the new baby, or this is the first time I heard her giggle or, you know, stuff like that. And I still have those, those calendars. So you don't have to use a fancy like journal. Like even something like that is, is perfectly suitable, but That's great. You did it for five years.

Jillian Forsberg:

I still can't believe I did it for five years, but it just became part of my daily habit.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

like I, I felt like I had to step outside of my day to remember how important those days were.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

in my fire safe now, because it's, it's so important to me to keep that, and not only is it like a memory jogger for me, because, you know, we

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

we did on a daily basis, but for my child. In like 10 years, when she's looking back on her own childhood, she gets to literally see the first five years of her life because as we know, memory's very strange. We won't know. We won't remember anything

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

I'm like, wow, I have no idea that we did that. And yet I wrote it down. So I think, you know, that when I think about it, that started the routine that I have every single day now of writing in earnest for an hour or working on my writer career. And you know, there's, there's, those are two separate things. Sometimes I'm like working on a presentation and sometimes I'm actually drafting and sometimes I'm editing and sometimes I'm just answering emails. But that sacred hour. Where you get to actually hone in on that mental part of you that needs to get word out somehow, I think is so important for writers to actually incorporate.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely. The, the concept of writing something down for each day reminds me of some advice that I read in Story Worthy by Matthew Dix. He does all of the moth storytelling competitions, and one of the ways that he generates. You know, ideas for his stories is every day he writes down what the most like story worthy moment of the day was, and he just writes like a couple of sentences just to be able to jog his memory of that. And then at some point when he needs another story, he'll go back through his, you know, journal that sits beside his bed of these like story worthy moments to pull out something to really flesh out into like some spoken word. Um. Personal narration and stuff, which is,

Jillian Forsberg:

I

Elizabeth:

I think you could do something similar. Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

and I love the Moth. If we

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

writers listening who need some inspiration or they're about to give a presentation and they need some help on, like how to format it, go listen to any episode of The Moth. The

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

The best storytelling in short format. You

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

you're gonna get. You never know who's gonna be on that stage. And there's every single time I laugh hysterically and then I end up getting a

Elizabeth:

And then you cry. Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

Yes, it's so well done.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

think in this digital age, the, the oral storytelling piece of our

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

often forgotten, and it's not nearly as valued until you see somebody get up on stage. And they tell an incredible story. Or you listen to a podcast and they tell an incredible story, and then you have this human guttural response where you're like, oh, I needed that. And I think that's because our brains are so receptive to hearing someone's voice, to hearing the cadence and rhythm of how we speak. And that I think, is. Part of what I absolutely love about public speaking, I just gave a presentation on Wednesday at this incredible woman organization called The Hive here where I live in Wichita. and at the end the ladies were all like, did you practice this? This was incredible. And I said, no, I don't need to practice my own writing journey story. I don't need to practice to

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

I've worked in bridal for 15 years at the same store. I don't need to practice those things. They're, they're literally part of my soul and psyche. as a historical fiction author, that's what I'm trying to get across, is that even though this common person didn't remember to write anything down, or maybe they did and it was just destroyed by time, um, I think about the Library of Alexandria all the time for

Elizabeth:

Right.

Jillian Forsberg:

and all the

Elizabeth:

Oh.

Jillian Forsberg:

Bird. Anyway, that's my, my Roman empire. Um. Those types of things where I can take a small memory of someone and reinterpret it into us. Understanding and connecting with the person who lived from, in my case, 250 years ago,

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

is why we still exist. Um. And he did extraordinary things. I mean, he had a rhino in 18th century Europe. Like, good luck buddy.

Elizabeth:

I am curious how you feel like this like era of podcasting is going to impact future historical fiction writers. Like imagine if you had these sort of things like someone actually speaking, you know, and sharing their story and a recording of it, like. Even just the legacy and posterity of it. Like it seems like for future writers there would be a treasure trove of, of resources.

Jillian Forsberg:

So I have a master's degree in public history, and what that means is I studied museums archive. Preservation, that kind of thing. And one of the biggest things that we learned about was how to go back and, and search through record to find either things that you were trying to prove or things that you were trying to disprove.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

it's so funny you just trigger, like, if I'm ever teaching a college class in 10 years, I'll be like, well, have you, have you looked at the podcast archives to see if they were ever on a podcast? Can you imagine if like JRR Tolkien was just casually talking to like somebody who was just, you know, all of a sudden where they needed to be? I mean if we go back and look at like the podcast archives, that piece of storytelling from person to person is gonna be huge, but it also can give you so much more. And these are the things that is a historical fiction author that I really wish I had. The color of someone's eyes, way that their, their mouth moves when they speak the way that they laugh, um, just their physical appearance that isn't a portrait. And in my case, I have like one portrait of my lesser known people that I write about. Um, the animals, I have tons of, but animals are different from people. And I think about this all the time. Animal to animal, like rhino to rhino, there's very few that's, that's really distinctly different about them. Cat to cat, you better believe there's lots of different things, person to person. How am I supposed to know if this person, you know, chortled when they laughed or when they cried, they, they, they only had tears outta the left side or, or what their ears looked like. If there's nothing left of them.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

in the future, the podcast archives not just valuable for the, the words that we say, but for the actual visuals that we give. Hopefully someone who's archiving and, um, maybe not fictionalizing, but maybe fictionalizing our own lives in the future. But it's also this snapshot of time. So if you wanna go back to 2012, um, and, and listen to podcasts back then, you can hear the technology change. You can see the video quality. So you're also getting things that are, that are desperately different from today. And it gives you this idea of what's in the background, what are they wearing, what does their hair look like, um, are they drinking coffee out of a mug? Do they have, you know, some kind of thing around them that can help you build a scene in a setting? So, am I jealous of the 2075 writers? Yes, I am. Because I don't have those, I can go to art museums and I can, um, look in the archives where I have to translate everything and read cursive writing. And they, if they can understand the way that we speak, they have a treasure trove waiting for them in the future.

Elizabeth:

Hmm. But how much would that steal, like. The art and creativity side of historical fiction where you then get to take what is basically just a template of a person and then imagine what color their eyes are, or give them these different characteristics to then maybe aid and mold, you know, your story or impart sympathy from the reader for certain things, or give them some distinct flaws that help, you know, make the story make sense in your mind, would that not like. Just take away from some of the art of it.'cause that seems really cool too, to be able to take someone who is a historical figure but have only enough about them to know that they existed in some basic timeline of their life and some key events maybe, and be able to put your own sort of impression on them.

Jillian Forsberg:

I think you just hit the nail on the head, the key event. the whole focus there. Most of the time, unless we are a heavily documented person, our key moments will not be recorded. So if you go back, um, let's say we are in 2075 and you go back and you wanna look at you and I in this podcast, you can, you can tell when we, when we sat down, you know, and when we started talking to each other, what were, what our day might have been like, but you don't actually know and. You know, um, if you go back to the past and like one of the most significant things that's happened to me recently, um, I had to go to the ER'cause I had an allergic reaction to something. There were no cameras on me. So how would you have known and how would you have known that this morning? I was woken up by two of my three cats and, um, then I went and stretched and the back bedroom with my husband, and then I took a shower. And what song did I sing in the shower? So you still, you still have to imagine some things. And because we're not on the Truman show, it's almost impossible for us to know what that person's life was truly like. And on top of that, there's always this little characteristic twist that we can put on people. Let's say I'm the villain in someone's story and they're watching me give this podcast talk and, and talking to you. And then they, they think later on, well, she turned all of that magic off. Something switched inside of her brain and something nasty happened, right? So the imagination and art will be there, but what will really happen is you'll have a whole bunch of people who can prove you wrong. And that's one of the reasons that I like writing about people and animals, because A, you can't tell me what the animal did because you weren't there in, in 1740, and the person who didn't write anything down about their life, eh, your assumption is just as good as mine. In fact, in my second book, I. Was lucky enough to get an early an a RC, an early reader copy of, um, Tim Blanding's. Augustus the strong biography. Augustus the Strong was a king in Poland and an elector of Saxony in Germany in the early 18th century, and I really wanted to focus on one of his mistresses. one of his wills and testaments. He left an$8,000 allowance to one mistress, and he had like. About a dozen unrecorded, maidens, winches, cooks, servants. Your guess is as good as mine, right? If you're gonna have a dozen recorded mistresses, imagine how many other women you took advantage of anyway. Um, the biographer, I was searching and searching for more information about her because she was a common person. Her name was Fatima. The biographer said something that absolutely just ripped my guts out. It said, there is so little known about her that anything that could be written could be true. Ugh.

Elizabeth:

Hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

We have one portrait. We had know that she had two of this King's bastard children. We know she was stolen as a child during a war. She was literally a war prize, and yet. This woman did so many things. She gained the king's attention after she was a handmaiden for another one of his mistresses, and somehow she earned$8,000 allowances. Something's up. Something's up, right? So I'm like, huh, I have all of these clues, all of these things that can lead me to assumptions about her and that one striking portrait. But I don't have anything else to go off of. That means that I can characterize her in a couple of different ways, but I have to make those decisions. And for me that part of that is listening to the past, um, finding out what it looked like there. I got to physically go where that King's Palace was and explore and, and feel the stones beneath my feet and my hands and say, okay, she was here. Was she afraid? Was she excited? There are just so many things that you, we will never be able to fully emote, even in this highly recorded world, simply because our own rich inner worlds are not something that we could ever truly put down on paper. Um, and I, I think that that's, that's something that's both wonderful and sad because the truth is historical fiction will always be around because we always have questions about why the past relates to us. But in the thought of becoming our own historical fiction, maybe a hundred years from now, it almost makes you wanna just go back and start writing more things down so that they don't get anything wrong about you, you know?

Elizabeth:

Right.

Jillian Forsberg:

that also brings up the fact that you could be the hero in your own story,

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

are definitely the villain in somebody else's.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely.

Jillian Forsberg:

realization, right? Whether you're doing memoir or historical fiction or

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

you made amends with someone who still sees you as the bad guy,

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

make amends with someone who sees you as the bad guy. And how is, how are people going to interpret that? I know that there are a lot of villains in history who had one person write one nasty thing about them, and then their reputation is ruined for all eternity because that person wrote it down. So. It's a really roundabout way of answering your question, but essentially I think, um, emotion can never be fully understood unless you've experienced it yourself. And I also think that as we go through time, people evolve into the era in which they live, and your reaction to what I might do today in 2025 is gonna be way different for what my characters did in 1725.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely. Well, and I even love that you touched on that because that's one of those key things that people who are interested in maybe writing memoir or sharing their story in some way. Hesitate about because they recognize sort of the innate fallacy of memory or even just their slant on their narrative. And there are gonna be certainly people that held you back from reaching certain goals and objectives in your life. And so there can be a lot of reservation for, for writers about. Putting that story out there and like, oh, how are they feel about this? And the reality is everyone is able to write their own story. And so just as you have a right to share your story and write it in the way that you see it, just know and acknowledge that they also have the right to write it, how they saw it. And all of that is valuable and important and interesting.

Jillian Forsberg:

When our brains protect us to protect our hearts, don't want to be perceived as bad. No matter who we are or what we have done. And I think when we know that we've done wrong, sometimes writing about that or going to therapy about that, or just talking about something that we did make a huge mistake on whatever that might be. doesn't have to be shared publicly. I. But being able to go back and interpret those things for our own wellbeing is so, so important. Um, and I think there's a lot of people who do that in memoir or do that in journaling or, or for me, like, I was just thinking the other day'cause I'm, I'm drafting a new book right now, and I'm like, okay, I. That person did that really mean thing to me two years ago, and I can replay those words in my brain. Boom, boom, boom. I have it memorized. I don't know why we do that to ourselves, but I literally have really mean things memorized. I'm gonna write that into a character and have that character say almost the exact same thing. The person will have no idea ever that I've,

Elizabeth:

Right.

Jillian Forsberg:

really focused on that and characterizing my own bad guy in this story. at the same time, don't we need to do that? Don't we need to get it out somehow? And we also, like I said, our brains protect us. If our brain is saying, um, I can't stop thinking about this thing, then that's probably something that we need to go back and work on both personally and professionally to make sure that it doesn't cloud everything that we do in the future. That we have to be able to learn to let go. And for me, that's writing about it. Um. And I think that's where my morning pages, my hours spent on my writing career, they come in. So key for me when I've gone through something traumatic grief, loss and argument, anything like that, I can get it out. So it's not just a creative outlet, it's not just I'm writing books for my author career. It's also a way for me to literally self theorize myself and my therapist is like, well, you can always talk to me too. And I'm like, thank you Cindy. I know. But sometimes you just have to rework those conversations, right? And do it on page. And that way you can control the narrative. And of us creatives, I think, are pretty anxious people and a lot of the reason that we're anxious is'cause we feel like we don't have any control. So. What if you took that nasty person that was mean to you, who was probably scared in their own right, and you rewrote that conversation in a way that makes you proud of yourself? You don't never have to share it. But I do that in dialogue sometimes when I'm writing my books. It feels really good, good to be able to do that.

Elizabeth:

I love that. Yeah. There's so much just personal therapy that goes with sharing your story and writing your story. Um, I, you had mentioned the several times, like the, the hour that you carve out, and that was another thing that you and I really, um, resonated with each other about. I, at one point, I guess it was. Last year, um, I still had my, you know, full day to do whatever writing I felt like doing, and I would wait for the inspiration to come. And then I got a job in, uh, last August, and all of a sudden what I had was. Typically about 40 minutes between leaving my job and before I had to pick up my daughter from school. And the amount of writing and work that I've put into my book since then has been astronomical compared to what I did when I had all this free time in the world. And so when you talk about, you know, just having this hour that you use for, whether it's writing or promoting yourself as an author or doing whatever you need to do in your writer business. Um, I would love for you to talk a little bit about the impact that that's had on you, how important that is to you, and just provide for our listeners an idea of a sort of different path that also works. Like you don't have to have these huge chunks of time or set aside these like sprint weekends or anything else.

Jillian Forsberg:

I love that you realized that, and I think most of us, most of us work better on a deadline. And so there's some newer authors who don't have a deadline yet, and that's okay. But if you really wanna write a book and you think to yourself, I just don't have time, my question for you is, what are you doing in your morning routine?

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

That is often the time where no one's gonna mess with you for your job. So for me, um, I own a bridal store and people are like, well, how does that relate to your historical fiction novels? Well, it does and it doesn't, but what I've learned is that if I give myself. One little sliver of time every single morning before I go to my store. There's three big things that happen. One, I'm working on a deadline and I have an hour, and that's all I have. I wake up most mornings at six, or you've hit snooze on your iPhone and it's six oh nine. By the time it wakes you actually up.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

Right, like oh 6, 0 9, that's me. So I go downstairs, I hang out with my husband. We work out together every single morning in our back bedroom. That is our couple time our, she's almost 10. Our almost 10-year-old daughter, uh, sleeps through that. And so we just hang out, husband and wife, chit-chatting. Maybe we don't even talk. We just look at each other like, Hey, good morning. Like, we're in the same room together. And I think that bonding time for us is, is really

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

Then from seven to eight, I am at my laptop. I have a beautiful office that I'm in right now, and I usually

Elizabeth:

Mm.

Jillian Forsberg:

dining room table because I love to feel included, and that way my cats aren't messing with stuff. Anyway, that's seven to eight is basically a modified Pomodoro method, and

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

that is, it's basically setting a kitchen timer for like 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 30 minutes, and then you take like a five minute break. Well, for me, I know I have to start getting ready for work at. Eight. I have to take my daughter to school at eight 40. I have to be at my work, my store that I am in charge of by 9 15, 9 30. So my time is specifically parsed out where someone is expecting me, my daughter, someone is needing me, my store, and I cannot miss those time deadlines. So. That's the second thing is you, you give yourself, um, a set schedule so that you know you don't have any time to waste. And then the third thing is you make a to-do list and see how much you can get done within that hour timeframe or the 25 minutes or the 40 minutes you were talking about.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

a very good friend named Molly Greeley, who's book Marvelous, is one of the most stunning books I've ever read. And Molly always shares on social media how during the pickup line for her kid, she's sitting there laptop. editing, doing something because that is the time that she has carved out. She also has a full-time job. She also has written several novels. That's the thing, is that if you have a book in you, give yourself the deadline to do it. And so my deadline for myself is every calendar year I draft a book.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

I've done that since 2022. It has been the working method for me. Sometimes it means in December I really crank it out, but that is my timeline for myself. But beyond

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

hour, that sacred hour that I get where I'm not lounging around, I'm not scrolling on my phone, I'm not on TikTok. I'm not listening to podcasts. Sometimes I am listening to my audio books to edit, but again, that is directly related to my author journey.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

I manage to make this work. As someone who just like you, when I, I have Tuesdays off most days, most weeks, and if I was like, I'm just gonna ride all day on Tuesday, guess what? I don't, the tomato in the backyard looks really ripe and ready for me to go out and pick it. My

Elizabeth:

There was laundry to do.

Jillian Forsberg:

there's laundry to do. I could really go do those dishes right now. Um, is that a new episode of Antiques Roadshow that they

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

across my screen, like I would not do it. And that's what happened to me during the COVID Lockdowns. I was like, I'm gonna write

Elizabeth:

Hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

during the COVID lockdown. I was so desperate for news seeking because I wanted change so badly that it didn't happen. Creativity during a time when everyone was at home should have skyrocketed, and it didn't because we were terrified of what was coming next.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

for me, my biggest piece of advice for people who are trying to write a book or they've started and they can't finish it, is give yourself a deadline, both with time.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

minutes a day. Literally set your timer. Do it. Set your timer 30 minutes at the same time every day is extremely helpful too. And then give yourself a date deadline. For me, it's a calendar year. I know that my book four is running really behind right now, but I know that by December 31st, I'll have typed the end. Because I give myself an hour a day to do it. I will say as you get deeper into your author journey, it does become more difficult because I'm still promoting my first book. My second book is up for pre-order. Um, so I'm editing that audio book right now. I was in edits for that one earlier. Um, my third book I am seeking publication for right now, and that one was drafted last year. And so my beta readers are reading it and I'm going through meetings with them. And then my fourth book is swirling around in my brain ready to get down on the page. So when you have four different books.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

a little more complicated and have to give yourself some grace. Like I know that I have a big writing retreat coming up next June. I might not finish my fourth book by then, but guess what I will have done is still dedicated that hour a day to my author journey. No matter what happens. That hour a day is my sacred time.

Elizabeth:

That's why it's, it's so unsexy, right? To be like, the key is consistency. No one wants to hear that. I did not want to hear that. I wanted all the hacks. I wanted all the, you know, other tips. Anything other than someone telling me. It's just about showing up and being consistent and, but you just get so much more done. Even in those short windows of time because you're just, you just know you need to show up. And it was interesting for me just watching my own shift in. You know, before I would sit down and I would have to do all these rituals to get into like the writing mode, I would journal a little bit. I would read something creative that would like hopefully spark something in me. I might need to listen to a couple songs or just, I don't know, to get into like that creative headspace, but when I only had 40 minutes. My God, Jillian, I could just drop right in,

Jillian Forsberg:

I know

Elizabeth:

you know, and it's just like the, the time would fly by and I would get, you know, I, I would get like 1200 words on a page when I was just like drafting in 40 minutes. Like that's some incredible progress. When you think about like the length of a book. To get like a thousand words in like every day. Like it's not gonna take you that long to get to, you know, 85,000 words or whatever you're, you're reaching for. Um, and so,

Jillian Forsberg:

you're, when you're doing that, you start to crave it, right?

Elizabeth:

yeah. Yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

don't have your 40 minutes, how do you feel?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, it feels weird. And I wasn't super, like I didn't do mine every day'cause my schedule didn't allow me to do it every day. But I knew at the beginning of the week which days I got to do it. And so then I would have these like ideas swirling around my head in the interim time and I would be excited to have that time to like sit down like, okay, now I get to finally flesh out this scene that I've been thinking about this week.

Jillian Forsberg:

I think that's, that's one of the most fun things for me too, is not only do I get excited about it, I also find myself craving that time. Like I'm, I'm like, ugh. I, I just wanna get to my writing in the morning and then, you know, sometimes I'll write ideas on my phone, so I don't like lose it

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

Um, but I think that's one of the best things too, is that you're, you actually start to form routines after

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

for like 18 days in a row. I think it is psychologically. And so if you do this for basically three weeks in a row where you, where you've set up a routine and your body will literally start to push you toward the chair.

Elizabeth:

Oh yeah.

Jillian Forsberg:

to go do it. That also is good for breaking bad habits, and that's why I've been exercising since 2018, you know, almost every single day in some form in the morning, because my body's like, oh, we're just gonna go do what we like to do. Our cells need this. Our brain cells need this. Our heart needs this. Our psyche needs this. To be able to just go and do the thing that you're used to doing, creating routine is. Part of human nature. So if your routine becomes drafting a novel every single morning for 365 days, guess what's gonna happen? You're gonna write a novel.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, exactly. It's such a weird space to be in right now because I just have the memoir. I don't have multiple books to be working on like you are, and so I just sent it off to my editor. Um. A couple days ago. And so it's so weird to know I have this like couple of weeks plus then I've got some travel and so I know I have about six weeks where I'm not gonna work on it. And part of that feels really weird. Like I keep finding myself like kind of itchy for something creative, but also really excited to be able to take that level of space away from it so that I can co hopefully come back to it with really fresh eyes on it, which I think will be really helpful as I make those edits and changes.

Jillian Forsberg:

Yeah. My

Elizabeth:

but this.

Jillian Forsberg:

and he calls that putting the, putting it to bed, let

Elizabeth:

Yes, yes. It's so important, but it feels weird to not have another creative project. So I'm already starting to think about what the next thing will be. Um, and that's just really exciting. As we wrap up this conversation today though, I wonder if you might share a little bit about your publishing journey and how you've navigated that without an agent.

Jillian Forsberg:

Sure. So I, I think a lot of this happens to a lot of people. You get this like lightning bolt idea and that's what most people's memoirs or novels are. And just like you said, like you, your brain is like, oh, I can't stop thinking about this. And that's what happened to me in 2020 at a zoo in Salina, Kansas. When I saw an Indian rhino for the first time, I went on a a rabbit hole research thing where I looked up how many still exist. And found that there's a historical rhino that traveled 18th century Europe for nearly 20 years with a Dutch ship captain. Where's the novel? I, I wrote it myself. There wasn't one. So

Elizabeth:

called the Rhino Keeper. You can get it on Amazon.

Jillian Forsberg:

You can get it. Yeah, you can get it almost anywhere. You can get the audio, paperback, hardcover, and I have new award stickers to put on it because I just won a major award in the state of Kansas for that book. It's a 2025 notable book, which means every single library in the state of Kansas will have that book, which is

Elizabeth:

That's amazing.

Jillian Forsberg:

I know. Anyway, I wrote this book about this rhino. And it's a true story. And when you write about people and animals that are real, there's this ache in your gut that says, I have to make sure that I am doing a service to them and honoring them. And I could not ever put that manuscript in a drawer. Couldn't do it. So I went to, in 2023, I went to, um, the Historical Novel Society Conference in San Antonio, Texas. And I met my publisher there. I had queried a ton of agents. Um, actually I queried about 60 agents and I had like 10 full requests, which was absolutely insane amount of, of people who were requesting that manuscript. And I submitted to a small press called History Through Fiction because I thought, well, maybe I could skip the entire submission process and just have a book in my hands. that's exactly what happened. Um, labor Day Week in 2023, I was literally sitting on my dad's couch and my dad is an incredible author. He writes, uh, young adult sports books. And, um, I remember getting the email that was a full request from the publisher. Then in early October, I got the email saying we would be honored to have this be one of our manuscripts. And in less than a year, I had a book in my hands. That timeline of idea to physical book in my hands in two or three years is very fast in the publishing industry.

Elizabeth:

Yes. Yes.

Jillian Forsberg:

People are often like, well, why didn't you just indie publish it? Because I don't have the skillset. Indie publishing is an incredible amount of talent, cover

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

layout, copy, editing, all that stuff, the promotion, all of that. I needed a publisher to hold my hand and walk me through that.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

I signed on with them for my second book and my third book, well, I'll probably have news about my third book here pretty soon. But the, the reality is, is that when I was going through that process, I had a ton of rejection and my. biggest thing was flipping that rejection on its head and making people understand that not only is this part of it, but you can do something about it. I started what I call my rejection fence. So for every single rejection I got for the rhino keeper, I actually have the fence here. You want me to grab it?

Elizabeth:

Yes. Would you?

Jillian Forsberg:

Yeah. Every single time that I got a rejection for the Rhino Keeper, I painted a flower on this piece of picket fence that I got from the antique mall and um, I'm gonna show it to you. Hang on.

Elizabeth:

I love that. Listeners, this is something that Jillian did and then she ultimately went kind of viral for when she posted, um, the picture at the end of all of these flowers on this fence with the announcement that she had this publishing deal, right? Jillian, is that correct?

Jillian Forsberg:

yes, this is side one.

Elizabeth:

Okay,

Jillian Forsberg:

Every single flower is a rejection, and this is side two.

Elizabeth:

well you're also an artist. Look at you. Go,

Jillian Forsberg:

Oh, you know what? It was a joy to paint flowers. Um, I had to learn how to do it. One of my best friends was a painter, so she gave me a few tips, but then I got to paint my offer butterfly, Sam

Elizabeth:

oh yeah,

Jillian Forsberg:

and I got to take this fence with me to my book launch. And

Elizabeth:

have fun.

Jillian Forsberg:

a little sticker, so if I have anybody out here looking, looking for inspiration, I've had lots of people create rejection projects after that. But what it did was created this space for me to feel safe. When I got a rejection and I had

Elizabeth:

Mm.

Jillian Forsberg:

I

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

I could only paint a flower, which I really enjoyed doing. If I had a rejection and you probably

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

walk in through the dorm, and that's fine. I could only paint a flower if I got a rejection. I enjoyed painting flowers.

Elizabeth:

Mm.

Jillian Forsberg:

to paint them, but I couldn't. And so I took five minutes from my day. Sometimes I cried, sometimes I laughed. Sometimes I rushed through those things. Sometimes I spent 20, 30 minutes on one flower, and what ended up happening was a psyche shift. And the

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Jillian Forsberg:

was, okay, I got a rejection. Now I get to go be creative in another way that. Saved me and proved me right, that there is space for every single type of book in this industry. And that if you try your hardest and don't give up after your first five, that's like 60 rejections, right there is what that is. You can make it. Your path might not be what you thought it would be originally, but there are ways for you to get your creativity out into the world. So now the rejection fence has become kind of like a staple. I feel like if anyone ever writes a book about me, they're gonna be like, where's that fence? Hopefully it's in a museum by that point in time. So.

Elizabeth:

It is just such a beautiful sentiment to share and I'm so glad that you're leaving us with that, that, you know, finding a way to shift those things. That you don't want into things that you do want, and so that you're doing the action that you need to do in order to hopefully, ultimately get, you know, a publishing deal or, or get to just get your book out there. And, um, Jillian, thank you so much for being here with us today. Where can people find you?

Jillian Forsberg:

On most platforms as at Jillian Forsberg. and you can find both of my books right now are on history through fiction.com. Yeah, I, I love connecting with readers and writers, so find me.

Elizabeth:

All right. Well thank you Jillian, and happy riding everyone. Okay.

Stephanie:

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Elizabeth Wilson

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Stephanie Oswald, Ph.D.

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