Episode 81: [Rhonda Linn] Why You Need to Write Your Story

It's time to write your story. Whatever you're holding on your heart that's meant to be shared. In this episode, Stephanie talks with guest, Rhonda Linn, about what inspired her to publish her first book of poems: Chapel of Small Breath in Fall 2024. When you share your story, you discover connections with people you never would've imagined as they see themselves reflected in your words. There's honest talk about fears you face as a writer when it comes to sharing your story and how to overcome those feelings because your story is meant to me told. The Inspired Writer Collective Memoir Master Plan Cohort is the perfect place to start writing your story and finding your voice. Doors are open until August 29, 2025 at noon PT. Get info and sign up here. You also don't want to miss Rhonda's insight into how she faces the blank page. It's a fun strategy for collecting ideas so there's never the uncertainty about what to write about each day.

You're invited to join us for our Virtual Writing Retreat October 11 and 12 on Zoom! 

You’re invited to connect with us by joining our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. Whether you’re working on a memoir, a novel, or journaling for yourself, this is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.   

Join our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. Whether you’re working on a memoir, a novel, or journaling for yourself, this is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.

Get on the waitlist for the Memoir Master Plan cohort here.

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Transcript

Stephanie: 1:02

Welcome listener to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Stephanie, and I'm here today with our guest, Rhonda Lynn. this is gonna be a really exciting, interesting episode about the importance of using your voice, in your writing. So, Rhonda, welcome and why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners.

Rhonda: 1:26

you so much for having me. Well, I'm an author and entrepreneur. I'm out of Michigan, and I have an agency that works with a lot of authors and also just heart led entrepreneurs, um, in publishing and in all kinds of marketing as well. I am the founder of Earth and Jar Stars. It's POD or not podcast, um, substack publication and community, um, which has been like a beautiful, um, space as well.

Stephanie: 1:57

Wonderful. And I know just, was it about a year ago that you published your first book of poems?

Rhonda: 2:06

Last fall.

Stephanie: 2:07

I right on the last fall? Yeah, we're co We're coming

Rhonda: 2:11

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: 2:11

So what, what got you started writing and seeking to publish your poems?

Rhonda: 2:20

Well, I think I've been a writer for as long as I can remember, and when I was in my past career, I really felt like, you know, I did a lot of writing on my own, but I felt like it wasn't professional to share it with anyone. And even as I started my business about five years ago, it was really this, this process of stepping into my voice and. I had this experience where a dear friend of mine who, her and I had been, you know, writing group partners and just shared poems back and forth for years, um, she got terminally ill and as she was dying, she published a book and that was like a kick in the pants to me in many ways. But for my own self, I was like, I do not wanna be in the case of like being on my deathbed. And that's when I'm finally gonna share all of this. These words that are on my heart. And so that really inspired me to write and refine and then eventually, um, have my first book published.

Stephanie: 3:21

Amazing yet yet tragic story there to, to go along with what inspired you. But I think, I think that's something that often weighs on the, writers' minds is that feeling of like, if I keep waiting, am I never. Gonna get there. And your story speaks so strongly to taking the steps to get yourself there. And so how long did take for you to put all your poems together and, and did you traditionally publish?

Rhonda: 3:56

Yeah, so I. So my friend died in the fall, and it was not long after that that I started the Substack community, which is called Earth and Jar Stars, and I was so afraid to do that, that when I hit publish on the first essay, I literally went in the bathroom and threw up immediately. I was so. Terrified, I think, to share my voice. But then that community, you know, has just been like very generous and very kind, and it was through that, that. Someone reached out to me and said, you know, I think that you're like a poet, but you're writing this nonfiction work. And I said, that's exactly right. And um, she helped me to, um, sort of like envision and, um, write the rest of that collection, which I did for the rest of that winter, and gave me some really beautiful advice for publishing. And then Bell Publishing House published the book last fall, just about a year after I started the Substack community and after my friend had died.

Stephanie: 5:02

Oh, that's wonderful. And are you, are you finding, I mean, as you've been on Substack, did it take a while to get the community going? Because I know, you know, writers are curious about should I be starting there too with my work? What have you found?

Rhonda: 5:19

I, I have found Substack to be a wonderful platform in many ways. I think that, you know, there are very smart and kind readers on Substack, and it's just, for me at least, I mean, I was on social media a lot before that, but it just feels like a lot more intimate and much more intellectual in ways that appeal to me as well. And so for me at least, it felt like a really nice like entry point and. I don't know. It didn't take long. I mean, people, you know, started to sign up for free and for paid subscriptions almost right away. And then I feel like their algorithm is really just nuanced in connecting you with other people who would like your work as well. And so it kind of, you know, ripples out from there. And. I mean, it's not the biggest publication or anything, which has never been my goal. Like my goal is to foster this community and to really share what's on my heart. But, you know, I would think that it's relatively easy to use and for someone that you know is wanting to test the waters, I would just say, you know, try it out and see if you like it. I've really been very pleased with it.

Stephanie: 6:27

That's wonderful and I, and I love that you shared so honestly about like how you felt when you. Hit publish the first time because I think there is that feeling when you put anything out there that's, you know, in your own voice and feels very vulnerable. And I mean, I'm sure there are a lot of listeners who appreciate that'cause they're probably sitting there wondering if they should even publish. And just knowing, like taking that first step, it can feel crazy, but then it can lead to some really positive things.

Rhonda: 7:00

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I had really big fears that, you know, that it would sort of like tank my business or that publishing this book would tank my business. And the fact is that the exact opposite happened. And so, you know, obviously we wanna like think with discernment about what we would choose to put out there to the world, but I also think that when we choose what we share, and it comes from the heart. That people will respond with generosity and they see, like I have clients who are, um, paid subscribers of my Substack publication as well. And it's like you open up a different part of you and it can really like just increase the depth of, you know, the other relationships that you have in your life. And it, it certainly wasn't, you know, this sort of detriment to my career, which is what I thought that people would just think I was all over the place and'cause so much about marketing is like. You know what I mean? You have like your positioning and you sort of like have your lane that you stay in, but then if you branch off into something else like this, it's, it's exactly the opposite of that.

Stephanie: 8:05

Okay.

Rhonda: 8:05

so I guess for me at least, it was a really affirming experience to be able to do that, that, you know, people could see me with ity in a different way and also. I don't know. It just was like this integrating experience for me to not just have like this business part of me and like this writer part of me, that it's, you know, all of me together in a way that I, that I think was really beautiful.

Stephanie: 8:32

That that is really wonderful. And I mean, I think it speaks to some of what I've noticed where I feel people are really looking for authentic connections with people and they're. They're not wanting all of the, you know, phony fronts and they wanna know there's a real person there. And so I think being able to be that way is, is so helpful. And, and I think it could be inspiring too. I mean, especially you know, getting past your own fears. And how did you find what, as you wrote your poems, like how did that help you push past that fear about. What you were sharing or your ideas or publishing it.

Rhonda: 9:18

Yeah, well my book is called The Chapel of Small Breath, and in some ways it's like a very dark book, and I had people that told me like, maybe this shouldn't be the first book that you publish, Rhonda, because it is like in a very different tone. The work that I put out on Substack is. Very grounded and uplifting. And it's not to say that this book isn't, but it's a book about, you know, a relationship of mine, a significant relationship that really fell apart. And how do you go through, you know, sort of like the stages of grief, but not that neatly of figuring out, okay, how do I envision my life again? And how do I, you know, have hope for the future when. You know, things are really pretty dark. And so it's a book that speaks about hopefulness but not hopefulness. Like you'd find it in a Hallmark card. Right? This kind of hopefulness that we lived through in our human experience. And so it was a book that I, you know, I think I had a lot of fear around publishing, you know, just because it was my own story and it was, um, you know, messy in some ways. And then especially people saying like, ah, it's like not the voice that you've been writing in, you know, but I think, like, I just kept thinking that, you know, these poems have really been on my heart and since I've published this book, I've had hundreds of people like reach out to me and say, you know, I, I feel like less alone, or, thank you for sharing this. And so, you know, there's like clearly a place for it in the world that even when we fear, we feel fearful. When we have the like conviction to share what's on our hearts and to share our words, the world finds a home for them. And I think, you know, that we have to remember that, that sometimes like, you know, I could just keep all those to myself, but ultimately, I don't know, is it like really helping other people or is it really helping myself to do that? And so that's the way that, that I kind of see it as well.

Stephanie: 11:28

Well, and it sounds like, I mean, it helped you as much as it was helping other people, and I think sometimes there's that piece of, if you think it's gonna help one person, it's worth it to put it out there, I feel, you know? And it sounds like yours went far beyond that and. think so much of the human experience does have that kind of dark messiness that we don't always wanna talk about, I think when people are in that space, when they find connection, it can be so powerful.

Rhonda: 12:06

Yeah, I, I really believe that, that our culture does as a disservice by, you know, wanting us to be like a monolith and Instagram perfect and, you know, to just present this one part of ourselves. When life is really rarely like that. And so I think speaking to what you were talking about a moment ago, if people really want authenticity and they want connection, and in my mind, you know, when we can have the bravery to model that in our own lives, even when it's not particularly comfortable, we create a world that's like big enough to hold onto other people's voices and. I think that's like a pillar of what I would see as building a better world is that process of people being able to speak their truth and you know, to live out their heart's calling.

Stephanie: 13:04

No, I, I absolutely agree, and I mean, that's a huge part of, you know, the work we're doing of getting voices and stories out there and helping to, you know, amplify those because we all, we all have something to share and I think that that's one of the powerful pieces about writing. And so when you, when you finally, you know, finished writing, um, your book of poems, how did, how did that feel? You know, what was that feeling as you kind of came to that point of the writing process?

Rhonda: 13:42

I mean, I think it's rarely one thing. So it was a combination of feeling like. I could have continued to refine that book. But then also, you know, having the realization that, you know, it was like, you know, finished enough and it was ready to share with the world. And you know, that one of the reasons that I decided to go with publishing it with a smaller press was just because like I know that I have other books in me and I. Like, didn't wanna have it like spinning, you know, for years through the publication process or just waiting and waiting on that. I was ready for it to come into the world and, you know, beautiful things happened. I, my business grew from having three to, um, now I have 11 team members, like, just since this last October, since that book was published, you know, and all of these things happened. And so I think. You know, it was the right timing. You know that you sort of like have something and you've worked on it really hard and it's ready to come into the world and will it ever be perfect? Like I would argue that perfect doesn't exist, right? And it can be like perfect enough for that moment.

Stephanie: 14:58

Yeah, I know that feeling. I mean, I think. That we could all sit and, you know, ruminate over a word or a phrase or forever and ever and ever, and just keep going back and thinking, you know, oh, this isn't ready, this isn't ready. And I love what you're saying about like, it's ready enough. Like it needs to be out in the world. I have other things to move on to. And I mean, I think that that's a really important message because I think that. There is that piece

Rhonda: 15:28

Yeah.

Stephanie: 15:29

where we think like, okay, it's not really ready. Like I'm not ready to push it out the door yet, when in fact it just needs to go.

Rhonda: 15:37

Yeah, and I think it's, I think that's oftentimes, you know, fear that's hiding as perfectionism, you know, that can keep us stuck in that. And I'm like not talking about it from any high horse'cause I, you know, put off sharing my work with the world for decades right before this. But it's just, you know, kind of just getting really honest with ourselves with. Okay. At what point is it like a body of work enough and I feel comfortable with it and, you know, just to, to let it go knowing that, you know, perfect doesn't exist and we'll have another book. Right. And, uh, you know, we all keep going forward.

Stephanie: 16:17

So what are you working on now? What's your newest writing project?

Rhonda: 16:23

so I'm working on a series of vignettes that are about rest, and they're about rest through the lens of nature and really about how rest can help us transform our lives, transform our businesses, and really transform culture because I think our culture just kind of keeps us on this hamster wheel. We're just going and going and going, and it doesn't do us ultimately, I don't know. It doesn't give, let us live out our best lives from the best, from the most heart led place. And so this book is just a, a little a. Like little snippets of how we see rest in nature and how that might reflect into our own lives. I'm really, I'm so excited about it. It's, it's almost there.

Stephanie: 17:15

I, I love that message.'cause I know we, we talked about it early on in the podcast here about the importance of rest and we still talk about it. And I, and I know for myself, I see so much benefit when I. Take time to rest and how I can come back to something so much more ready to tackle it and move forward. So that sounds like it's gonna be an amazing gift for readers and, and others, even probably small business owners and entrepreneurs and the like to have, have your book.

Rhonda: 17:52

Yeah, I hope so. I mean, and it's a, it's a topic that's really near and dear to my heart. When I first, you know, was starting to write about it and I was like talking to some folks, you know, as we do. You know, someone said, you're the last person in the world that I would imagine writing about rest, Rhonda. And it's true because, you know, overworking has definitely been a theme in my life and something that I still, you know, kind of grapple with. And I think sometimes we have to remember that like those things in our own lives that are really sticky and really challenging, those are the things that make us uniquely qualified to, you know, be able to address some of these topics in, in a beautiful way, I hope.

Stephanie: 18:39

No, I, I mean, I would imagine that as you've been working on the book, that you've probably discovered new things about yourself and about. What rest can do that can offer even greater insight because I think you're so right. I mean, there is so much of that in our culture around go, go, go, go, go. You gotta get the next thing. You gotta get to

Rhonda: 19:01

Hmm.

Stephanie: 19:01

place. You got, you know, everybody's driving fast, everybody's rushing past, nobody's paying attention. People are, you know, going about their, know, days and not really stopping to pause. Yeah. So that's. That's amazing. And so have you, you found that you have hit any, you know, blocks as you're working? Or do you feel like this project is flowing? How, how does it feel similar or different from what you did before?

Rhonda: 19:35

That's a great question and I would say the other book really kinda came through like a channel really fast. And I would say that probably 70% of this new one did that way. And then I've been like in the muck with the last 30% of it, though it's getting there. Um, and uh, I had hoped, um, you know, that it would be ready to pursue publication here, like, you know, this summer, but I think it will be this fall, which is fine. You know, I think, you know, just like you're saying that we sort of like have these. Timelines in our head and we're like hustling, right? But we have to remember that, you know, creative endeavors take time and um, we have to find our way through them.

Stephanie: 20:21

And have, do you find any, you know, pro procrastination or avo, you know, like where you're like, oh, I have other things to do. I'll get back to that later, that, that creeps in a little bit with some, some of that being in the muck space,

Rhonda: 20:37

I mean, I think, I think that's like a tenet of the human condition, so, absolutely. And one of the things that I think about a lot, I don't know, have you ever seen that little image of, there's like a guy and he is, there's one person on the left and he is standing on a ladder and the ladder has like really big rungs, um, between it and then the one on the right and it has like littler rungs. And I think about that graphic all the time, you know, with writing, but also just with anything in general that it's like if I feel like I'm gonna choke on a project, I just break it down into baby steps and baby steps and baby steps again, until I feel like I can tackle those steps. And so that's been a way, you know, just that I've like approached the world in general, which I think can be really helpful that it's, you know, if I don't think about, I have to finish this book, but. Okay, I can sharpen this paragraph, or I'm gonna give a global view of this chapter, or whatever it is. Then suddenly that becomes something that's digestible in a very different way.

Stephanie: 21:42

I love that you referenced that because I think that that's such a like not only visual, but just message about anything in life that like sometimes when things feel. Really overwhelming and you're like, oh my goodness, I can't possibly get from here to there. But just those little steps along the way and just breaking it down into smaller steps can, can get you there. And, and I think it can, I mean, especially with writing, you know, I think, I think even with my own writing, I think like, oh my goodness, there's no way I'm gonna finish it. But like you said, going back and. Starting from the last sentence or starting from, you know, oh, I can fix this piece, or I can add something here. Can a nice way to approach it and take away the overwhelm.

Rhonda: 22:32

Yeah.

Stephanie: 22:35

So one of the, one of the questions we've been asking, um, hold on. I just dropped my, I'll edit this out. My headphone just fell out of

Rhonda: 22:45

I am gonna turn my screen up and down so I can see you again because my, my thing froze. Alright.

Stephanie: 22:51

It didn't freeze on my end. So all of this could be edited out. Um, So one of the, uh, one of the questions we've been wanting to ask this, this season especially is, um, you know, what message would you give to writers who are just starting out or those that are stuck about. importance of getting their voice out into the world.

Rhonda: 23:21

So I would say that, you know, one of the most supportive things for me was finding community because like you can just stay spinning in your own mind all the time. And so at different times in my life that been different things. You know, I've had, you know, like a friend that I would send writing to, I've had little writing groups that, you know, were maybe three to 10 people at different times. Um, when I was first starting my business, I started a, a Facebook group called Homeschool Spun Joy, a wellness collaborative. And that was just felt like this sheltered community, you know, where I could begin to share my voice and, you know, and then substack. And so I think, you know, finding whatever that community looks like to you in a way that doesn't spin your nervous system out can be a really beautiful way. Because the truth is that, you know. Having other people reflect our work, especially generous kind people, you know, as you're doing this to reflect our work back to us and help us sharpen and clarify ideas, you know, just really makes it fun in a, in a different way. That's really helpful. So I think that's, that would be one of my big ones, as well as just not being afraid of. Putting pen to the paper and knowing that like you can, or, you know, typing whatever is your jam, but, but just getting words down and knowing that your future self will have the discernment to know if that's something to share or that was just for you. But Don. Edit too much as you're trying to write. Like just kind of let it flow. Um, and then, you know, you can always make those decisions later on, I think has been something that helped me as well.

Stephanie: 25:04

Well, and I love that you talk about community because we of course, love talking about community on this podcast because it's definitely something that we've. Found and continue to find is so important in the journey that if you try to, know, isolate yourself or think that it has to be done in a silo, that just doesn't take you as far in, in the journey. Do you find, I mean, obviously you find that to be true.

Rhonda: 25:32

Yeah, I absolutely believe in that. And I think the other thing that has helped me a lot is just to really look at how I like to work and think, because I'm somebody that if I just have, you know, like a blank word document or a blank page in front of me, I have a terrible time. But if you give me like a quote or um. Like an image or something, some idea, a chapter in a book to spring off of. Then suddenly I'm off to the races. And so for me, even like I have these Trello boards where I just capture screenshots, like if I'm on social media or if I'm just reading something on Substack or whatever and I wanna come to come back to that, you know, I have that. And so I have this like virtual, you know, collage of all these ideas. And so I never feel like I am just. Starting from a blank page. And so I think, you know, for other people that might be different, but to think about,'cause so often we say like, you know, I have to write and I'm gonna like sit down at nine in the morning and or whatever time of day and I'm gonna do this. But really if we think about, okay, what are my energetic flows? Or you know, how do I work and like, what's the spark that I need to get started? Then that can become something that's like very joyful and generative as opposed to feeling like drudgery.

Stephanie: 26:55

I love that idea of having the collage of images and having a place to start because I think that that's such great advice for. Our listeners out there and, and certainly something that, that I'm gonna think about now about having, you know, Trello board with images when I'm stuck and,'cause I, I've definitely found myself in a little bit of a stuck space, so I, I love that. And the idea of starting from what's already there and then it can just help you generate your own ideas. That's,

Rhonda: 27:29

Yeah, I lo I love that I have mine organized so it, there's columns and so if there's. You know, a topic or a theme that I'm interested in writing about. You know, if I'm just like scrolling on social media and I see, you know, a quote or some little snippet, you know, I'll just screenshot it and then right from my phone in one click, I can send it to that Trello board and it'll go right into the column, you know, for whatever topic or theme it is. And so. I really like that as a way just to kind of, you know, collect ideas and also just to be a little bit more conscious on social media as opposed to just mindlessly scrolling is to think about, okay, how is like all of this fitting into this, you know, collective, um, bank that's helping me to, to do this writing work?

Stephanie: 28:15

I love that too because sometimes I find that. Like, I'll get into being on social media and then I'm not. And so that's a great way to think about having a purpose for being there of like, oh, well, maybe I'll find something that'll spark an idea or remind me of something for later. And, and so I definitely, love that, uh, advice for, for being, being more intentional about that time as opposed to just it, letting it disappear.

Rhonda: 28:47

For sure. I mean, and I do the same thing. Like I'll take pictures of little, you know, paragraphs and paper books that I'm reading or, you know, just anything. But I like that idea of, okay, how do I form this into this like, generative bank so that I always, you know, have a springboard, um, to at least start with, you know.

Stephanie: 29:07

Yeah. And I love how you talked too about. Really being aware of your energetic flow and you know what, what works. Because I, I think that's another piece in our culture, especially around writing, where sometimes it can feel like the advice out there or the guidance is so prescriptive of like, well, you have to do it at this time of day, and this is the only time of day that it works. Or you have to do it every day, or you have to. Always do it this way. And I love that, that idea of thinking about, well, where is my energy and where am I gonna be the most productive?

Rhonda: 29:45

Yeah, absolutely. I, my old, um, like, I'm still like dear friends with him, but I studied with, um, Robert Vivian, the, the writer, and he. Is like always riding in the mornings, right? Early in the mornings. Like he loves like skating in that space between like sleep and wakefulness, which, you know, works for a lot of people. But, so for years, you know, as I was a college student, like I would try to do that and it was just like miserable to me to be like waking up at 5:00 AM and like trying to do that and it just really wasn't my jam. But you know, if I can just go out and go for a walk, like anytime of day's like. A channel and then instantly I know what to write, you know? And so, or thinking about, you know, if, if there's times that I feel like I'm very just like brimming with ideas, if I'll just like go away to an Airbnb for a night or two, um, you know, that can work really well. So I think just really trying to understand that everyone's best practices with advice. You know, work for them, but, but they're not you. And so you have to sort of figure out, okay, how do I, you know, create my own version of this in the way that really supports who I am as opposed to trying to like just bash my head against someone else's like gold standard.

Stephanie: 31:03

No, I think that, I mean, I think that that's so important to think about and I think for listeners to, you know, really take all, you know, take the pieces that work for you and leave behind whatever doesn't, and kind of figure it out.'cause I know that I'm often finding that approach ebbs and flows depending upon, you know, seasons or whatever's going on in, life. And so it's important to be aware of that.

Rhonda: 31:29

Yeah. Yeah, I, that's something that I write about on Earth and Jar Stars all the time because our culture has this, you know, like they're like in love with consistency, which I think that's just, you know, capitalism, right? That wants us to be like nice, good, um, producers of things. But the truth is like, you look at anything in nature and like, there's always ebbs and flows and I mean, you look at a tomato plant and. You know, in the fall it'll be like half dead and producing prolifically at the same time. Right. And then there's this like whole off season during the winter before they would sprout again. Right. And so to expect ourselves that we're gonna be consistent day in and day out, when literally not a single thing in nature is that way. I think this like sets us up to fail or for our culture to, to, to make money off of us, quite honestly.

Stephanie: 32:21

Yeah. No, I think, I think there's definitely that and, and I think that that's why the, the fear of failure is so big for so many, and, and unfortunately, I think, I mean, I even think since I was a teacher, like the school system creates that same idea of like, you have to be producing and everybody has to, you know, at every single subject in school. And yes, there are those that do, but. reality is, is that not everybody does and then, you know, it just creates that, you know, that cycle where so many feel like, oh, I'm never gonna get from point A to point B and Yeah.

Rhonda: 33:00

Yeah.

Stephanie: 33:01

Yeah. You're so right. And I, and I love that image of nature and just thinking about how much we can learn. Like you said, I mean, you're writing about it with for rest and. Just even you mentioning going out for a walk, I mean just that time outside in nature is, can be so important.

Rhonda: 33:26

Yeah, absolutely. I was also a teacher. I can resonate with so much that you're saying there. And I, when, before I, um, transitioned to work in higher education, you know, we were, when I added up the days that we were doing assessments, it was a quarter of the year, this quarter to academic year. And so I think about that all the time, you know, through the lens of what we're talking about. You know, they say like, you can't, or I, I forgot like exactly what the phrase is, but it's like. Like a pig won't grow if you just keep on weighing it all the time or something like that. And you know, our education system is like that. And so we have that standard for ourselves, right, of like constantly measuring like, what is my success and how am I boiling up to, you know, what I want to be? But the reality is that things take time to grow. And so when we can just be a little bit kinder to ourselves and be, you know, more. Generous to those times that we do need to rest or when we're not writing as prolifically or whatever, without making those wrong, then we're able to hit the gas in in different ways that may not have been accessible to us before.

Stephanie: 34:44

Yeah, no, that's. That's so true. You're so, so right about that. Well, this has been such a wonderful conversation today. Uh, I feel like we covered so many aspects of your writing journey and the writing process, and is there anything you'd like, anything else you'd like to say for our listeners today?

Rhonda: 35:06

I really appreciate the opportunity and I would just, you know, encourage everyone to, you know, keep writing and to find joy in it and to find community and know that beautiful things unfold. So I'm grateful to be a part of the conversation and thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie: 35:23

Thank you so much for being here.