Inspired Writer Collective Podcast

Episode 86: [Jared Glenn] Writers, Here's Why It's Important to Get Curious About Your Process

• Inspired Writer Collective

Share episode

Send us a text

This week we welcome author Jared Glenn. Jared’s second novel, Lost in the Sun, just released and he’s currently working on his third novel.

It was so much fun doing the production work on this episode that was recorded in June. Discussions around writing are timeless. You’ll find so much packed into this episode. There’s not a specific timeline for when you need to learn something or apply it to your own writing. There are opportunities all the time to find nuggets of wisdom you can apply to your own practice. Elizabeth first connected with Jared on Threads when he’d shared about having a shift in his writing process. We’re finding great connections with writers on Threads, so if you’ve been curious, we encourage you to give it a try. Since we’re always curious to learn from other writers, Elizabeth had reached out to learn more and Jared has since become an active member of our community participating in our first virtual writing retreat over 4th of July weekend and connecting us with writers.

Stephanie’s conversation with Jared offers inspiration and insight into Jared’s writing process. He's discovered how much his process changes depending on what he's working on and how the story appears to him. A recent project shifted his process from pen to paper to stream of consciousness on the computer. It’s a great reminder of how unique the writing process is to you, but also what you can learn from listening to someone else’s story.  There’s always so much to learn from other writers. 

Meet Jared Glenn: Jared Glenn is an author, playwright, and editor based in Long Island, New York. He has written for every medium, from screenwriting and theatre to poetry and essays. In addition to his debut love story, Left Unsaid, his work has been featured on stages around the country, including the 1619 Project Play Festival. His newsletter, The Absence of Light, focuses on the various intersections of art, creativity, and love, across all forms of media.

Books: 
Left Unsaid by Jared Glenn
Lost in the Sun by Jared Glenn

You're invited to join us for our Virtual Writing Retreat October 11 and 12 on Zoom! 

You’re invited to connect with us by joining our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. Whether you’re working on a memoir, a novel, or journaling for yourself, this is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.   


Join our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. Whether you’re working on a memoir, a novel, or journaling for yourself, this is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.

Get on the waitlist for the Memoir Master Plan cohort here.

If you prefer video versions of the podcast, you can find all of them on our YouTube channel.

Stephanie:

Hello, listener. Welcome back to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. I'm one of your co-host Stephanie, and I am here today with Jared, and we're gonna have a great conversation about all things writing. And so, Jared, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience.

Jared:

Thank you, Stephanie. Hello, everybody. Uh, again, my name is Jared. I'm an author, editor, uh, playwright, screenwriter. Uh, and stage director, uh, a little bit of everything in the creative space. Uh, I love that gives so much opportunity for me to do so many different things and tell stories in so many different ways. um, yeah, I'm always excited to talk about stories and writing and, and do your best to try to keep me from talking for too long'cause this stuff really gets me going, but, uh, yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

Stephanie:

Yeah. We're excited to have you today, and I know you do have such passion for what you do, which is wonderful, and I think that the listeners will get a real sense of that. So I know, um, when we talked the other day, Elizabeth had talked about, she had connected with you on threads because she was really curious about how you had talked about a shift in your writing process. What can you tell, tell us about that.

Jared:

Yeah, sure. I was responding to a, a post, a thread, uh, about a process and about just d different ways that people approach it. I, you know, you don't know that what you're saying is unique until, sometimes, until you say it. To me it's normal.'cause I'm, I'm used to it. Uh, I discovered. Now as I'm about to publish my second book and my first book came out a year ago, 1st, learned that my process changes depending on the story I'm telling, so that it wasn't so much about, oh, I have to make sure I have this pen and this type of paper, or use this program or software. The things that I did for my first. Worked very well. The book was, had gotten great response, has gotten great responses and feedback and I love it. And you know, it's my baby. That first one is very special to you. and I tried to use that same process with my second book and it was not going well. It was not. I was, uh, normally I'm a right by hand, yellow legal pad with the GTU pen guy. I tried doing that for this next one and my brain just could not get out of park. Um, everything felt stagnant. I couldn't figure it out. I got so frustrated. I just sat down and started typing on the computer almost stream of consciousness style, and then it started to flow. So I wrote my first draft on a computer, which I normally never do,

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

and it ended up working out. then now as I'm working on a third book and my second book is in edits, I'm rediscovering an entirely new process. So it's really about what does it take, not for me to tell a story, but for what does it take? For this story to get told in the best way possible by me. Um, so I had to start listening to the demands of the, of the work instead of assuming what it was going to require. And that just creates a whole new space for discovery, right? I'm

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

I'm discovering the story and discovering me at the same time. So it's a fun process, but that's how I first connected with you all.

Stephanie:

Well, that, that's so cool to hear about having a different approach to your process. I think probably encouraging to some of our listeners that there isn't one way to do writing, which I know Elizabeth and I talk about that all the time too, that there's not one way to do it. So I think it's really interesting that you've discovered. How the story comes through you and how it wants to appear in in the world. That's so interesting.

Jared:

Yeah, I've always been a, I've always thought about it as, uh, no matter what somebody is seeking out, it's always, it depends. That's the first. It's part of my response if you're like, oh, what's the best writing advice for this thing and this thing? And I'm like, it depends. I've got a lot more questions before I can even, and even then I'm gonna give you an answer. And they're like, but try whatever works.'cause I don't know. It's, and I love that it's kind of a, a fingerprint kind of experience.

Stephanie:

Yeah, no, I think that that's so great because I think there's so much noise out there on the, you know, the internet about, well, this is the way you do it. Or, I mean, I know people who are very academic about it, who are saying, well, this is the way you do it. And I think sometimes new writers especially get really overwhelmed hearing that.

Jared:

absolutely. And I think because I didn't start out with prose because my, I got my start with stage plays even before that, as a teenager with poetry, I didn't know what it felt like to have rules. I kind of was, my mentors always made it a point to not. Put too many restrictions how, so I didn't know what the supposed to was. When I, I, I found a story that I knew wouldn't work as a stage play, and I said, well, how else can I write it? And that's what made me decide to write, to write a book. It, that was it. It was really that simple. And then it was like, I didn't go around looking for the right way to do this. How do I start? kind of said, I'm gonna do what I normally do. I'm gonna outline a story, I'm gonna come up with an idea. I'm going to create some characters. this happens, then this happens and this happens and see where it of takes me. And that allowed me to find me and the way that I need to write. Um, and I think that's, you speak perfectly to that of if you get too caught up in the noise and that initial anxiety around making sure you're doing it right. I think make sure you're doing it first, and then we can, we can think about the ways we can get better at it.'cause I'd love for my first book to be the worst book I ever write.

Stephanie:

I love that advice about just, you know, get busy doing it and then figure it out as you go. So I'm sure our listeners are curious to know, you know, what genre do you write in? What brings you inspiration for your books?

Jared:

Yeah, I, I'm a love story writer. Uh, distinct from romance writer.'cause I don't, I don't want to adhere to what type of ending there needs to be. and I, I think love stories are way more, or, uh, it's such, so broad and they can, it can encompass so many things. And I just love, love. I've always loved love as a subject. That's the most common thing I've written about, no matter what, uh, genre or medium that I was, uh, using. I usually just get inspired by. the questions in life that don't have clear answers, and this is my way to explore them. So I don't think that I know everything. I don't think I know many things. I think the, the best stories for me are the ones that come from curiosity or create curiosity. it's not a, this is what happens if you do this. It's a, well, I wonder what would happen if I did this, or I wonder what would happen if this person met this person and put them together and then let their relationship talk to me. And see what comes out of that. Um, I find that exciting. I, I find it exciting to not know what's next, to not know what to do, know how things will play out. Uh, my first book, I, I wrote it then I got to the end, thought I was done, sent it to the editor. About a week later, while I was taking my mandatory break between projects that I give myself, it struck me that the story wasn't done and that I was trying to write an ending. And if there's one thing I learned about myself. that I don't write endings, I just stop writing. And I had more inside and that's why the ending didn't feel right. So I just kept going and added another two and a half chapters until I was like, no, I think this is it now. And that ended up being the ending and it was much stronger for it. So I'm really just inspired by not knowing anything and inspired by trying to find things out and not being afraid to say, don't know, I'm good. But we'll see. Uh, I think that's probably the main thing that drives my inspiration.

Stephanie:

I, I love that.'cause I know I'm, I'm also a fiction writer and, and I'm writing romance, but I, that piece of sitting down and not knowing where it's going, it, it does have sort of a thrill and an excitement to it. And do you find when you're writing with your characters that, that you can really feel them coming through you and that

Jared:

Oh.

Stephanie:

they almost become real to you?

Jared:

Not almost, uh, I, I often say like, if, if one of my characters walked in this room right now, I would recognize them. Um, I can hear their voices, I can pick out their clothes. once saw someone who I was certain was one of my characters on a subway train and almost had a panic attack.

Stephanie:

Oh my goodness.

Jared:

because it was very, very real. And I'm like, this woman's gonna freak out if I go up to her and tell her, like, I see you in my head all the time. Like I was like, I, I, I hear your voice when I'm, when I try to go to sleep at

Stephanie:

Right.

Jared:

Um, but what it allows me to do is I think that my greatest trait a writer that I pay attention. Um, and I think that. Because I'm paying attention and I'm listening all the time. It allows, it allows the characters move organically through a story. So yeah, I'm creating them, but at the same time, I'm really just listening to them. I don't start putting them on a page until they feel very real to me. And then once they feel real, I feel more like a stenographer than a, than a writer. I'm just like, well, they're in a room and they're, they're talking to each other. I'm just listening to it and writing it down. Um, I pro, I know it can sound kind of like, ooh, like, you know, a little nutty and maybe it's one of those things only other writers really get, like I know

Stephanie:

Yeah. No, I, I get what you're saying.

Jared:

Yeah. So it's, it, that's how it is in my head. And, you know, I'm thankful that art is a thing. Otherwise I'd probably be in a straight jacket or something.

Stephanie:

No. And so, so it sounds like your characters come to you very organically. Do you do any kind of character sketch or anything beforehand? Or is it just that you decide you know who they are and then say, let's see how this plays out.

Jared:

So the first thing that comes to me is their voice, like the way they speak, not just

Stephanie:

Oh.

Jared:

of it, but the way that they speak. And it's usually not in a chronological sense. There's a scene or a moment that pops into my head and I can see their face, and I can hear their voice and the way they say this thing, and then that's where it begins. So there's no telling, excuse me, there's no telling where that scene will be, but wherever it is, I start working my way backward and say, okay, well how did they get here? How did they get to this moment? So, um, in my first book there, I'm not spoiling anything, but there's a moment where the female man character says, just tell me that I'm not in this alone. was the first thing I heard, I didn't have a title. I didn't know this woman's name. I didn't know anything. The first thing I heard was, just tell me that I'm not in this alone. And I worked my way back from there. I'm like, well, how was she saying it and why was she saying it this way? And who was she saying it to? it was just one morsel and then it turned into 70,000 words and. That's kind of how it begins. It really starts that way with me just about every time I hear a line or I hear a, a, a moment or see a moment in my head, and then I just build out from there.

Stephanie:

Do you find that because you started with poetry which is very, almost has a conversational piece to it and then into stage right, you know, uh, into screenplays, that that really helps you create that dialogue and build the voice.

Jared:

Absolutely. If there's one thing I feel comfortable writing, it's dialogue. It really was an adjustment trying to write, you know, the show. Don't tell the expository stuff. But when it comes down to just put two people in a room with something that they want and something that's in their way, have'em start talking, that, that's flowing. I can't write as fast as my brain can think it in that moment. The parts that slow me down is getting to those conversations, getting to those, those moments. Um, I love poetry so much and I, I'm a big Shakespeare nut and Pablo Neruda

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

John Dawn and Yates, and a lot of that, especially a lot of that old Irish poetry. Which is very, you know, some would call it my car, but I just call it very deeply felt they're very emotional and I love that they spoke with such raw energy and they managed to convey a lot without saying a lot, sometimes that, that kind of got me started on what are the most effective ways to express these incredibly complex emotions. And then that transitioned me into stage plays was really just all talking. You know, if you give, you learn dialogue very quickly when you're working in theater. Um, that kind of turned into my graduate school of expression. I didn't just, I don't just write that way, I speak that way in my life. The people in my life will tell you that I talk the same way that I write, and that wanna make sure that my words matter and I don't just say anything. So it get makes me put a lot of thought into the way we express ourselves, the ways we listen and hear each other. And make and make me much more thoughtful about the way those pieces fit. puzzles fit between two characters, so that's part of what makes it My favorite thing to write is'cause I really learned so much about the story and who the characters are and how they move through their worlds and into each other, just by the way that they speak and the way that they listen.

Stephanie:

That sounds so great.'cause I know especially with, you know, love stories and uh, that having dialogue to move it along can be so powerful because you do really get a sense of that emotional connection that happens between the characters.

Jared:

Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, it's what the way I like to think about it is what would this person want to say? What would this character want to say? And then what are they going to say instead? Um, so the thing that I know is internal, they're not gonna say that I'm not writing that I know

Stephanie:

Right.

Jared:

and they know what it is, but that's not what's going on the page, at least not till the later at some point. To me, the climax is when people are honest with each other. That

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

of a love story. When people finally say the thing that they really wanted to say and how many different ways can they avoid saying it? Until we can't, until neither side can take it anymore, and then the cup run is over. So that's usually my first part of that desire. And what's getting in the way is what does this person really wanna say more than anything? then how many different ways can I think of come up with to make them avoid saying it until the very end?

Stephanie:

That sounds like a great writing challenge. I I like that. I like that.'cause it's so, I mean, it's so true and it's so true in, you know, so many different genre genres across the board of,

Jared:

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie:

building that tension and. Until it finally all blows up. So, um, yeah, no, I think that that's wonderful. Um, so I know one of the other things that you feel really passionate about is about, um, having a community of writers and how has that helped you as a writer to make sure that you're surrounding yourself with, you know, people to help you along the way?

Jared:

Well, I think one of the biggest misconceptions

Stephanie:

I.

Jared:

being a writer is that it has to be a lonely or, uh, endeavor. I even had that same feeling when I was younger'cause there weren't many people that were thinking about it the way I was thinking about it or aspiring to this. As a, as a career, as a, as a calling, really. Um, and the one thing that I've learned along the way is thrive in being able to kind of mind Mel with other writers. I love having conversations about story in case it's not apparent. I love talking about stories with anybody, but especially with other writers. And I get better and I get stronger, and my skills get sharper just from keeping my mind locked in. in on that, that, uh, that vibe and the more time you spend around it, you know, I, I, I have a men's book club uh, that revolves around. We, we alternate between nonfiction, fiction and a memoir. And we had a great discussion recently about a nonfiction book, uh, in which one of the discussion points was not tolerating mediocrity in your circle. You should always have people around you that are aspiring to more and are seeing greater for themselves and for you. that's part of how that book Club started. But that's what I want to create and write a community. It's not about the quality of the writer, it's about the aspiration. It's about the commitment to the craft of it. And that the more people I have around me like that, the stronger I get and I hope the stronger it makes them. So I've joined Rite Communities and tried to be a part of Rite Communities and then eventually began one. Of my own Saturday Zoom room with lots of people, most of whom I've never met in person we get together for one hour every Saturday. Uh, and I bring prompts and I, and we can share if we want to. We can not share if we don't want to. There's no expectation either way. a big part of it's that we, we feel things. And I think one of the, the, the biggest things that I'm always trying to bring to the community is that the first rule any artist is to be honest. And that not just mean, don't lie.'cause I don't think, I don't think it's that simple. It's about bringing all of yourself to the fore and being willing to feel things that they're full depth. And that's a lot.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

that's not easy. If it were easy, a lot more people would be doing it. And we know. That's not the

Stephanie:

Absolutely.

Jared:

right? So to create a space where people can come and do that and support other people in doing that, because that's not, it's not about making you a better writer, it's about making you closer to yourself. And that in turn will inevitably make you a better writer. So you'll get there. But I'm not trying to turn people into better writers. You don't even have to be a writer. To show up, you just have to have things you wanna feel and try to find a new way to explore them. My book Cover artist is in the Is in the the group, and she is a self proclaimed non-writer and she's a photographer and digital artist and graphic designer. She had to be convinced to show up to her writing group and I said, I think you'll really enjoy it. There's people that are published like myself, and there's people who have no intention publishing anything. They just like the space and like to feel.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

and have have felt to benefit from it. And I don't think you can get that without community. I don't think you can. I don't think you can become as strong as you can be as a writer without community.

Stephanie:

Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I mean, we talk about that all the time on this podcast about the value of community.'cause you know, we find it amongst ourselves and just. The huge benefits that come from, like you said, pushing you to that next level, whatever it is for yourself. And I appreciate what you said about, you know, thinking about who you surround yourself with.'cause that can be so important for moving you forward. And I think that it's really helpful for writers to hear about all the benefits you can get from. Whoever you surround yourself with and making sure you're purposeful in in that choice. So that sounds like a wonderful community that you've built.

Jared:

Absolutely. And I'm, I'm incredibly grateful for all the, the people that are a part of it. and the, this kind of unintended, beautiful thing that has become a staple in my life that now is a given, that this is where I'm gonna be for an hour. On Saturdays and

Stephanie:

Um.

Jared:

it's, I've, I've been touched by the feedback from them about how it's impacted the rest of the way they move through the world. Um,'cause I think that's kind of what we want art to do, right? We

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

to have that feeling, have that impact on people and to get to see it so up close and in a way that'cause social media community is great, but you spoke to something that I think is really important about it and there's an intention. It's not just enough for us to be liking each other's posts or rooting for each other with some emojis in the comment section. It's like, Hey, let's get together and let's just talk about writing. Like you could have asked me to have this conversation, just to have the conversation. I don't even have to know you have a podcast. And I'd be like, sure. Just tell me when and where you wanna talk about it, because I love it and I love that other people love it, and I wanna be around the people that love it, so we can both love it more. And I think that intentionality. Is important to put a face to the, the feelings, put a voice to it instead of us just talking at each other in these, in this cacophony of, of social media. I love that when people are like, no, let's take it a step further. Let's connect. Let's beta read for each other. Let's share feedback. Let's share processes. Let's, let's find ways to sharpen each other for the sake of what we're trying to build.

Stephanie:

Well, and I think it's so great too.'cause sometimes you never know, you know who you can connect with in those spaces, who you can share interests. I mean, just unexpected things can so often happen, and that's one of the wonderful things about finding other people who share in the joy of what you love to do.

Jared:

Absolutely. I mean, I, I stumbled into having this opportunity to create a community because I agreed, I just said yes to attending something that a good friend of mine, Amber Ray, who's a bestselling memoir author herself. she said, Hey, can you show up to this writing workshop thing that I'm doing and kind of just, you know, help support what's going on? And I said, yeah, sure. I had no expectations. It's me and 34 women this, in this space. You know, it's, it's a space dominated by women. And, and I, before I knew it, I suddenly was making these great connections with people and it was like, Hey, we should keep in touch. And next thing you know, here we are meeting every Saturday and them trusting me to create a space. For them to give of those emotions. It's helped me. It's helped improve my writing drastically, just'cause it's hard to, to write love stories and then spend time around so many people who are so different than you and not gain greater perspective. I mean, the biggest compliment I got from my first book was women telling me how much they related to my female main character. That's directly attributed to how much time I've, I was raised by women. Most of my close friends are women, and all the women people in this group are women, and I'm paying attention or trying to do my best to pay attention. I won't pretend that I do it perfectly all the time, but I take a lot of pride in like, I want this to be like a whole person that another woman can see themselves in. And I don't want it to, I don't want to be the guy that looks like he's trying to write a female character and end up in a YouTube video. Getting criticized about it. I want it. I want it

Stephanie:

Yep.

Jared:

an entire human being who happens to be a woman. And I don't pretend to know everything about anyone or anything, but I think that's part of what helps

Stephanie:

Yep.

Jared:

that I'm willing to listen and explore rather than pretend that I know how to write women or even how to write men, I'm just one person

Stephanie:

Right.

Jared:

I don't think in book is interesting. If there are two mes trying to fall in love with each other. I, I need to find ways to, to create more dynamics with people, and there's no better way to do that than through community, just from getting to know as many people as possible.

Stephanie:

Yeah, I think that that's so great because I think that it's so important for writers to be observers. I mean, I know that I'm always an observer and you know, I write in coffee shops a lot just so that I can, you know, eavesdrop or watch people or watch dynamics and it can be so inspirational and you can find different. Things that maybe you didn't expect or come up with different ideas, um, when you're in community. So one of the things that you mentioned briefly was about, you know, in your group you don't do feedback, but, um, what are places where you've looked for feedback or how, you know, how did, how has feedback helped you with your process?

Jared:

In wonderful ways. So I have some very trusted alpha reader, alpha readers, uh, who helped me out early in the process. people who read the genres that I'm writing for and are fans of them and also are not afraid. To, uh, to be completely honest with me, shout out to Natalie.'cause she is, uh, she's my main, that's my, my main number one, uh, woman right there for, not afraid to let somebody know, like, Hey, this is, this really could use some work. Or, Hey, this really resonates. She helped give me the confidence to even venture out. I wrote the first six chapters and I said, okay, before I go any further, I just need someone to tell me that I'm not terrible at this. And, and I handed it to her and it was the most tense three days I have felt in a long time before she got back to me and supported me in. And I know this is actually really, really excellent and that, that really got me going. I have an incredible editor and writing coach and Megan McLean, who I cannot speak more highly of, um, as far as another person that that's a wonderful listener. And to really have somebody that grasp what you're trying to do. Um, I can say that as an editor myself, how important that is really have somebody to say it, not just, is this good or isn't it? Tell me, is this what, tell me what I'm trying to do and tell me what this needs for me to get there. Um, so that's another, uh, probably very strong area where I get feedback. She also runs writing community every Thursday night where I can bring passages and get feedback. From other writers while they also do the same and I can give feedback. So I do try to balance it. the, the stakes writing with feedback'cause I do think it's not a great idea to overwhelm yourself with too much feedback.'cause then you know, we can't please everybody. And if you try, you're gonna write something really terrible. So at a certain point you gotta know when to cut yourself off and say, I think I've heard it enough.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

About this piece and, and some of it is I have to trust my gut, but there's an incredible value to me, and feedback and being able to take feedback, which I think is a, part of being a writer is so many people are trying to do it. It's great that the, that the barrier for entry is so much lower than it's ever been, then some people are trying to do it without having that element, and I don't think they realize as bad as it might feel and as hard as it is to hear sometimes. That this needs work or you need to revamp this chapter, or you might need to overhaul this act of the book. It's also gonna make your writing so much stronger when you swallow those razor blades and dive in and do it. I'm dealing with that with that right now with my editor. Megan gave me notes and I, my, I said it was three steps. The first step is why would I change that? The second step is, the second step is, okay, fine, whatever. I'll trade, I'll change it. And the third step is. Well, I'll be damned she was right. This is way, way better. So you can, you can get so much stronger and really see the wealth of your full potential through feedback. And it's better to get it before you publish it than to be staring down the barrel of a bunch of one star reviews, uh, on Amazon

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

fact. Uh, so yeah, I, I, I embrace feedback.

Stephanie:

So have you, have you found over the course of your different books that have you seen your, your writing Grow and Change with, or is each story so different that it's a different approach each time?

Jared:

It's a combination of the two. I can certainly see areas where, I had to look back at my first book for a later, for a later project, um, I almost didn't recognize certain parts of it. I was like, I can't believe that I, that I wrote that. Not necessarily'cause it was bad, just'cause it

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

And

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

like, I just,'cause I know, even if I said the same thing, I know I wouldn't say it this way but that's also part of what I love about the humanity of it, is I can chart my growth through that. Because now I'm writing my third book currently and I can already see, oh, I was about to do this. Like no first book Jarre would done, would've done this third book. Jarre is doing something a little bit differently. Or I can feel the characters in a different way. Um, it, no matter how many times I do it, I don't, if I ever felt like I was used to it, then something has gone horribly wrong for me along the way. So I always, I like the feeling of like, there's something new for me to learn here. There's something for me, new for me to discover. And at the core of it, I'm still trying to explore a different question with every piece it shouldn't feel familiar. Uh, and then for me personally, the familiar is the enemy of good. So I wanna make sure that I am always putting myself in places where I'm not necessarily sure where this is going, and I'm not positive that I can pull this off, but I'm gonna try it anyway.

Stephanie:

Yeah. Well that's a, that's, that's such a great, um, mindset to have going into a writing project.'cause I think too often they're writers that wanna feel like they have it all figured out from the start, that they, you know, they wanna have that perfect outline or they wanna know every little bit. And it just sounds, you know, so inspiring, listening to you about just approaching it with this mindset of, you know, what can I learn from this? What can you know, make me better? How is this gonna challenge me? I.

Jared:

Yeah, I think that one thing I did, uh, I did learn from the way I grew up and I spent a lot of time to myself and by myself uh, some of the most important work is done in the shadows. Like, it's great to, to have, I certainly value community, but part of why I value it is'cause of how much time I spent alone, uh, for so long trying to do this and. There are so many things that you, that you have to feel in private things that you have to say to yourself, things you have to hear yourself say, things you have to make sure you never hear yourself say. and if you're not, believe and'cause I, I'm always big on the, it depends and this isn't for everybody.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

I believe that you will be as strong a creative as you are willing to meet yourself, that the deeper you are willing to go internally. more that you'll be able to find to bring out to the world, and it's ultimately, that's what we're doing, right? I

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

that said,

Stephanie:

Yep.

Jared:

not much to writing. You just sit down at a typewriter and bleed. ultimately what we're doing.

Stephanie:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jared:

for the consumption of others. And that's a difficult thing. That's a scary thing

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

most of the world's about you trying to find, or us trying to find ways to not be our full selves in full view of everybody, we are like, Hey, we're not, we're gonna sign up for it and then ask you to pay for it. Like that's a, that's a whole other. A whole other level of it. But it's like the characters, right? Like I mentioned before, there's what the character wants to say and then there's what the, what the, character's gonna say. Instead, we are trying to say what we really want to say and hopefully not be torn apart for it, or be okay with the possibility of being torn apart for it. So I had a, a client just briefly that, that I just finished editing her, her latest draft, and at the end she was kind of like. upset, but you could tell she was in her, in her head and was feeling dejected. You can tell when somebody's on the brink of like, maybe I can't this. And I was like, let me just make sure I slow you down for a moment and explain something to you. You, you had an idea and you saw it through to the end finished it. have already advanced past 95% of anybody who ever thought about writing a book in the first place. And I'm not saying that like it needs to be a competition. I'm saying it because that's a reality.

Stephanie:

Yep,

Jared:

throw a rock without hitting somebody that said they wanted to write a book or they thought about writing a book at some point,

Stephanie:

that's true.

Jared:

to them.

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Jared:

not an easy thing to do.

Stephanie:

No, it's not.

Jared:

so when you get to the end, even if you never publish it, even if you never fine tune it, even if you just get from once upon a time to the end, you have done something incredible. And that's, that's enough for some people and that, and that's totally fine.

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

nothing wrong with that, but allow yourself to feel that feeling that comes with seeing it all the way through to the end. In my author's note, in my first book, I put a, a message when it was basically like what was the main thing that I learned. That was what my mentor said I should try to focus my author's note on. And the main message of my author's note is Finish what you started. And that's what I carry through to every project now is like, like if I'm dare if, I'm gonna dare to say I'm gonna step forward and say I am with this book, I owe it to myself. see it all the way through to the end. I come from too long a line of very strong people who have been through all kinds of things. Way more difficult than writing a book for me to ever dare say, oh no, I don't believe in myself enough to put words on a page in a way that makes people feel things. It's compared to the other things that I've had to endure just in my own

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

is the easy part, and I know I'm not the only person that feels that way and has experienced a life like that. So that's usually what I tell people is there's such beautiful value. And finishing what you started, allow yourself to have that beauty.

Stephanie:

That's amazing and you've given so many great, uh, bits of wisdom throughout our talk today. So, um, what would be one, what would be, you know, one thing or you know, a collection of things that you would, advice you would give to a new writer who's listening, who is afraid to start or not sure if they should start?

Jared:

I am gonna try my best to pick one. I would say the first thing is, okay, I'll give two things. One that's, that's interpersonal and then one that's craft So the interpersonal one is be willing to go deep within yourself. You cannot hide on the page, so you have to be willing to go to a place that might be uncomfortable and there may be some work you need to do before you even pick up the pen. To be ready. So be honest with yourself about how ready you are as a person go down this road and, and if that means finding out from other writers what this really looks like, finding out from other writers what this really entails, not just the parts we're willing to post on social media, but the uglier parts, those moments of self-doubt. We've all had that moment where we're ready to highlight the whole project and hit delete. Talk about all of those moments with people. And then the craft part, excuse me, the craft part of it is. I think there's a skill to this that is underrated until somebody tries to, to go do it. And a lot of people treat it as if, well I know English, so I can tell a story. Having having an MFA and being a good storyteller, or not directly linked one might help. One might help, but that's not how this works. It's not a one-to-one

Stephanie:

Mm-hmm.

Jared:

'cause storytelling is its own craft. involves the English language or whatever language you write in. It involves language and words, but there is a craft to it. Be willing to learn. Be willing to acknowledge how, how little you know, how little you know. Read other, other authors. They're writing your genre. Read stories that are like the ones you wanna write. Read the stories that made you feel something and figure out why they made you feel something. And then see the stories and everything I'm talking about. I watch movies and tv. I read tons of books. I play video games. There are stories. All around, and I don't just seek out the ones that I'm familiar with. I'm seeking out stories that I have nothing in common with, just so I can find out more ways that people can feel things. I learned so much about love through stories that aren't about love. So it there's, there's so much out there. So I think that's the other, the craft part of it is be willing to learn and see the opportunities to learn in everything around you.

Stephanie:

Well, Jared, this was such a wonderful conversation today, and I'm so glad that we've connected with you, and thank you so much for being a guest today.

Jared:

Thank you so much for having me, and I'm really glad that we gotta do this. I'm invigorated. I feel like writing right now.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Elizabeth Wilson

Host
Head Shot

Stephanie Oswald, Ph.D.

Host